Craig Cod is Back!/PURE Engine

[AndreaModa]

Hahaha!

Shizuka was only assuming he said something like that Kostas!

[DanielPT]

Ever since the great success that was the BAR F1 effort (just look at Lola effort a few years earlier), culminating in the 2009 WDC and WCC for team, I wanted to rejoin F1. This new PURE project will bring our racing pedigree to the fore and show that independent brilliant and hard-working efforts still have place in F1. Obviously we will not set our goals for the first season too high for the first season in which we are hopping to supply at least one team. We cannot rule out, however, the possibility of this team winning our first race as an engine supplier replicating our early success in many other series. What we can promise to our fans through the world is the we will keep trying our best which should not disappoint a certain forum I read last week. PURE is a serious corporation which already have design for two engines, an inline-4 and a V6, both of them supercharged. This large engine offer is enough to prove any doubters wrong. It is just a shame that the rules don't allow for inline-4's any more, because I am convinced our product is the best on the market.

Ok WHAT???? Piggybacking off of others success? Are you for real Craig? You had f**k all to do with the 2009 WDC/WCC! And what 'other series' is he referring to?!

This could be the most rejectful engine supplier since Asiatech. But at least they actually had a working product!

I probably should mention that Craig Pollock never said anything like this although I imagine he probably would.

By the way, my apologies for confusing members. It was meant to be some sort of a parody.

[DanielPT]

Hahaha!

Shizuka was only assuming he said something like that Kostas!

I am sorry... Who?

[mario]

I probably should mention that Craig Pollock never said anything like this although I imagine he probably would.

By the way, my apologies for confusing members. It was meant to be some sort of a parody.

Are you implying that whilst some have delusions of grandeur, Pollock has delusions of competence?

[DanielPT]

I probably should mention that Craig Pollock never said anything like this although I imagine he probably would.

By the way, my apologies for confusing members. It was meant to be some sort of a parody.

Are you implying that whilst some have delusions of grandeur, Pollock has delusions of competence?

Yes I am. It is all based on this:

Riding on the back of Villeneuve's 1997 Formula One title, Pollock persuaded British American Tobacco to bankroll his ambition of becoming a team manager. In 1998 Pollock purchased Tyrrell, renaming it British American Racing (BAR), and signed his close friend and driver to be team leader. Immediately a controversial figure, Pollock made numerous claims about how successful his team would be. His high hopes proved to be unfounded however with a disastrous debut in 1999.

[AndreaModa]

Hahaha!

Shizuka was only assuming he said something like that Kostas!

I am sorry... Who?

My bad...thought it was Shizuka!

[Stramala]

My engrish bery bad. Me no understand word 'probabry'.

[Pointrox]

Gilles Simon gave a presentation at the IMSI show. It was mentioned in Race Engine Technology Magazine. He said the engine will be ready for Dyno testing July 2012. Adding the turbo and MGU (KERS in other words) will be at the front of the engine for chassis packaging reasons. the Turbo eRS unit will feed its power direct to the MGU and not through a battery to reduce losses.

[Phoenix]

Mecachrome? Are you kidding me?

They should definately seek a partnership with PLAYLIFE

[mario]

Gilles Simon gave a presentation at the IMSI show. It was mentioned in Race Engine Technology Magazine. He said the engine will be ready for Dyno testing July 2012. Adding the turbo and MGU (KERS in other words) will be at the front of the engine for chassis packaging reasons. the Turbo eRS unit will feed its power direct to the MGU and not through a battery to reduce losses.

It's interesting to see the relative state of development of each of the engines - I believe that Mercedes has already fired up one engine and are currently preparing for a dyno test, with Ferrari scheduling dyno testing for around mid 2012 (June, IIRC), though I'm not sure what either Renault or Cosworth are doing. OK, in the case of Cosworth that is probably in part because they fear that nobody will want their engines in 2014 - they're already being squeezed out of the sport as it is - but Renault seem to have been more guarded about their engine after Simon's departure to PURE, especially given their accusations that Simon might have indulged in some industrial espionage.
Moreover, as far as I can tell PURE are the first engine manufacturer to at least give us some hints about the final form of the engine by announcing where they are packaging the turbocharger unit. Whilst it is the case that the FIA has been relatively strict on turbocharger placement, I wonder whether that will be the standard location for all the new engines of whether some of the other manufacturers might try a different approach?

[eurobrun]

Espionage. Seriously

[Pointrox]

Espionage. Seriously

It's always worth a try, y'know

[eurobrun]

Espionage. Seriously

It's always worth a try, y'know

Win

[Pointrox]

Craig Bollock officially confirms Simon's words.
PURE starts to look serious. Can it be that they'll boot Cosworth out of F1?

[DanielPT]

Craig Bollock officially confirms Simon's words.
PURE starts to look serious. Can it be that they'll boot Cosworth out of F1?

Thing is, they will have to seriously cut they price of their engines and probably to something symbolic even otherwise I am afraid no one will risk using them giving they are an unknown quantity.

[eurobrun]

Craig Bollock officially confirms Simon's words.
PURE starts to look serious. Can it be that they'll boot Cosworth out of F1?

Thing is, they will have to seriously cut they price of their engines and probably to something symbolic even otherwise I am afraid no one will risk using them giving they are an unknown quantity.

This has the potential to be the rejectful engine since the life W12

[DanielPT]

Craig Bollock officially confirms Simon's words.
PURE starts to look serious. Can it be that they'll boot Cosworth out of F1?

Thing is, they will have to seriously cut they price of their engines and probably to something symbolic even otherwise I am afraid no one will risk using them giving they are an unknown quantity.

This has the potential to be the rejectful engine since the life W12

That sentence might just convince HRT or Marussia to get those engines!

[tristan1117]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97227

Which obviously means that we will be seeing a McLaren-PURE on the grid for 2014.

[Wizzie]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97227

Which obviously means that we will be seeing a McLaren-PURE on the grid for 2014.

If that did happen, it'd be unquestionably the gamble of the century. I mean, don't McLaren have the facilities and the know-how to make their own engines anyway?

[mario]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97227

Which obviously means that we will be seeing a McLaren-PURE on the grid for 2014.

If that did happen, it'd be unquestionably the gamble of the century. I mean, don't McLaren have the facilities and the know-how to make their own engines anyway?

Not at the moment - their road car engines are produced by Ricardo, a specialist mechanical engineering consultancy, although McLaren did have some input into the overall design of the engine. In theory Ricardo might be capable of designing a 2014 specification F1 engine, but it would require a considerable amount of capital investment at a time when McLaren is already spending heavily on their road car manufacturing division (the bill is around £800 million and growing, between developing the MP4-12C, researching their next two models and a completely new complex to manufacture those cars in).
As for PURE and McLaren - yes, undoubtedly relations with Mercedes are likely to be less cordial now that they are becoming competitors off and on track, and inevitably McLaren may be losing works manufacturing status, but on the other hand PURE is a completely unproven organisation run by an individual who gained a reputation at BAR for heavy spending with poor results. To my mind, it is more likely that McLaren would seek backing from a manufacturer - Honda is one suggestion - rather than gamble on an independent entry; if they wanted to do that, surely it'd be wiser to gamble on Cosworth given that Cosworth are somewhat proven as an engine supplier?

[Ferrim]

I can't see McLaren going for an alternative route if they don't have control over the engine design. That is, either go for another manufacturer's engine, or basically buy out an existing operation (ie., Cosworth, or PURE Crap, sorry Corp) to develop engines according to McLaren's needs (more or less what Walkinshaw did with Hart back in the day).

[DanielPT]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97227

Which obviously means that we will be seeing a McLaren-PURE on the grid for 2014.

I think this is McLaren's PR-polite way of saying, "What? Naaaa, those guys are crap. Moving on..."

[Myrvold]

I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

[mario]

I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

There has been some chatter around various forums speculating on mystery backers for PURE - some have suggested Peugeot given that a number of employees at PURE used to work on the Peugeot sports car program, with the announcement that PURE will be taking over some of Peugeot's sports car facilities adding fuel to that fire. Mind you, if Peugeot can't afford their sports car program despite the fact they were winning almost every race, why would they want to back an F1 engine program which could see costs more than double for no guarantee of success?
As for VW, I think it is unlikely that they will want to enter F1 under their current management who are known to be against the idea (since they believe that an F1 engine program would offer a poor investment to publicity ratio) - part of the reason why they've suggested they might come into the sport in 2018 is because it is expected that by then the existing CEO's will have departed the company and the upcoming CEO's are known to be much keener on F1 than the current group.
I'd also be surprised if Red Bull would really want to sink that much investment into a separate engine company given that they are now the official Renault works team - if you've already got the full backing of Renault, why would you want to build your own engine? And if Mateschitz did want his own engine division, why would he want to do it in such a secretive way given Red Bull's love of publicity?

[FMecha]

I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

There has been some chatter around various forums speculating on mystery backers for PURE - some have suggested Peugeot given that a number of employees at PURE used to work on the Peugeot sports car program, with the announcement that PURE will be taking over some of Peugeot's sports car facilities adding fuel to that fire. Mind you, if Peugeot can't afford their sports car program despite the fact they were winning almost every race, why would they want to back an F1 engine program which could see costs more than double for no guarantee of success?
As for VW, I think it is unlikely that they will want to enter F1 under their current management who are known to be against the idea (since they believe that an F1 engine program would offer a poor investment to publicity ratio) - part of the reason why they've suggested they might come into the sport in 2018 is because it is expected that by then the existing CEO's will have departed the company and the upcoming CEO's are known to be much keener on F1 than the current group.
I'd also be surprised if Red Bull would really want to sink that much investment into a separate engine company given that they are now the official Renault works team - if you've already got the full backing of Renault, why would you want to build your own engine? And if Mateschitz did want his own engine division, why would he want to do it in such a secretive way given Red Bull's love of publicity?

Mario, why you say that RBR is now Renault works team? Maybe since the Renault went became Lotus?

[mario]

I've seen some talk about PURE being founded buy some "outsiders" this might be Mr.RedBull himself, VW or others... who knows.

There has been some chatter around various forums speculating on mystery backers for PURE - some have suggested Peugeot given that a number of employees at PURE used to work on the Peugeot sports car program, with the announcement that PURE will be taking over some of Peugeot's sports car facilities adding fuel to that fire. Mind you, if Peugeot can't afford their sports car program despite the fact they were winning almost every race, why would they want to back an F1 engine program which could see costs more than double for no guarantee of success?
As for VW, I think it is unlikely that they will want to enter F1 under their current management who are known to be against the idea (since they believe that an F1 engine program would offer a poor investment to publicity ratio) - part of the reason why they've suggested they might come into the sport in 2018 is because it is expected that by then the existing CEO's will have departed the company and the upcoming CEO's are known to be much keener on F1 than the current group.
I'd also be surprised if Red Bull would really want to sink that much investment into a separate engine company given that they are now the official Renault works team - if you've already got the full backing of Renault, why would you want to build your own engine? And if Mateschitz did want his own engine division, why would he want to do it in such a secretive way given Red Bull's love of publicity?

Mario, why you say that RBR is now Renault works team? Maybe since the Renault went became Lotus?

I'll have to see if I can find the statement from Renault Sport (as the engine manufacturing division is part of Renault Sport), but they have stated in the past that they are going to be giving Red Bull full factory support for their engines and is now officially the works team for Renault's engine division whilst it appears that the former Renault team is being downgraded to a customer team.
It's in part because Renault seem to believe that it is much more effective to have their name and brand associated with Red Bull - they are also partially sponsoring Red Bull in the process - rather than Lotus, especially since the Lotus team is now branded with the name of another automotive manufacturer.

[DanielPT]

Craig Bollock, sorry, Pollock said that his engines are in such advanced state that they could race in 2013. Unfortunately the rules say otherwise as he admits it. The sport dictated it was in 2014... Damn dictators! PURE (which means mashed potatoes in Portuguese, at least if we read it with a certain accent), 2013, fo'real! And Mr Pollock is not in a hurry to seal contracts with some teams because with the 3 suppliers on the sport being able to supply only 3 teams each, it leaves out three very, very 'fortunate' teams who will be forced... ahem... will gladly chose having that piece of very advanced engineering on the back of their cars.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97885

[IdeFan]

I really hope Cosworth stay in/come back because given the choice between Cosworth and PURE its Cosworth in a heartbeat.

That would also make Pollock look like an idiot when no one buys his engine, which is another bonus.

[Ferrim]

PURE (which means mashed potatoes in Portuguese, at least if we read it with a certain accent)

It also means that in Spanish, as long as you use one of these ortographical signs unknown at the other side of the English Channel... "puré"

[Ataxia]

I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

[mario]

I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

Somebody within Toyota's Motorsport Group has taken PURE seriously enough to provide them with access to their facilities in Cologne - Pollock has announced that PURE will be relocating some of its operations (their headquarters will remain in France but most of the design and manufacturing work will take place in Cologne), where they will be using Toyota's old test benches and facilities to construct and test the initial prototypes. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97884
Now, we have to assume that PURE have given Toyota fairly firm assurances that they can afford to pay them for their facilities - we also have to assume that they would not have been cheap as Toyota's facilities were routinely rated the best in the F1 world (and still are - TMG now has a fairly profitable side line as a consultant to the remaining teams). PURE's current facilities are hardly shabby - there was talk of them acquiring some of the facilities (and possibly some engineers) from Peugeot's Le Mans team after they shut down their operations, so to acquire those facilities and more suggests that Pollock is not short of ambition right now.
The other point is that, assuming somebody does buy his engines, Pollock won't be seeing any money coming in from engine sales for at least another year - how has Pollock been able to finance this recent deal? The cost of developing the engines at, or possible ahead, of the manufacturer entries (only Mercedes has indicated that it is anywhere near having a prototype ready, but they will probably not fire up their engine until June), added to this recent spate of acquisitions and his curiously laid back approach to acquiring customers (as other have pointed out Pollock seems curiously confident that Cosworth cannot produce anything to rival him) suggests that Pollock feels he is pretty secure financially. If that is the case, where is the money coming from?

[Mister Fungus]

If that is the case, where is the money coming from?

[dinizintheoven]

I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

So will I, actually. In fact, with the constant cheering on of HRT at the pointed expense of Manorvirginmarussia (hang on, isn't the spirit of this forum to support the teams at the back in preference to those further up the grid?), I'd crack open the champagne if Marussia signed a deal with PURE and suddenly they were demolishing half the field... or more.

[AndreaModa]

I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

So will I, actually. In fact, with the constant cheering on of HRT at the pointed expense of Manorvirginmarussia (hang on, isn't the spirit of this forum to support the teams at the back in preference to those further up the grid?), I'd crack open the champagne if Marussia signed a deal with PURE and suddenly they were demolishing half the field... or more.

So would I!

And I agree on the forum spirit comment, it's something that does grate me slightly, because I cheer on HRT just as much as cheering on my local boys, but ultimately it's at the discretion of each member what they choose to do. Free world and all that!

[DanielPT]

I'd laugh if someone actually took a gamble on PURE and the engine turned out to be pretty damn good...

So will I, actually. In fact, with the constant cheering on of HRT at the pointed expense of Manorvirginmarussia (hang on, isn't the spirit of this forum to support the teams at the back in preference to those further up the grid?), I'd crack open the champagne if Marussia signed a deal with PURE and suddenly they were demolishing half the field... or more.

So would I!

And I agree on the forum spirit comment, it's something that does grate me slightly, because I cheer on HRT just as much as cheering on my local boys, but ultimately it's at the discretion of each member what they choose to do. Free world and all that!

If PURE went and demolished half the field or more with Marussia, given the spirit of the forum, we would need to stop cheering for them (no rejects any more) and take down the Marussia thread. I want PURE to be rejectful first for then I can cheer on their improvements, just like I did for Stewart (who eventually went on to win a race). Besides, plucky reject teams don't talk big to start with. Those who do are, a) not plucky at all, so less colourful b) crazy, which is more on the side of laughable. Two of the best examples of plucky reject teams are Super Aguri and Minardi which are still beloved. For the ones not so plucky, we have, as examples, Force India and Caterham who don't have half the attention HRT and Marussia have and finally for the crazy part we have Mastercard Lola, still a laughing stock.

[dr-baker]

But Mastercard Lola still achieved more than USF1 and Stefan GP ever did...

[FMecha]

But Mastercard Lola still achieved more than USF1 and Stefan GP ever did...

Appearing in a qualifying session?

[DanielPT]

But Mastercard Lola still achieved more than USF1 and Stefan GP ever did...

They also had a lot more resources and experience from racing which counter balances those achievements.

[Ataxia]

Had the FIA given Stefan USF1's entry, then they would probably be racing now.

[Minardi Man]

Had the FIA given Stefan USF1's entry, then they would probably be racing now.

And Villenueve would Of course be world champion, rather than finger boy