2011 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Discussion Thread

[Ferrim]

If Vettel leads into the first corner I'm turning off and recording it and watching it in the morning instead.

You turned off one corner too soon.

I can imagine eytl taking the remote control, hearing "oh that's a Red Bull off track!" just as he pushes the button, and thinking "thank you Webber, you've made it even easier for me. Now I'm really going to do something useful instead of watching this"

[Myrvold]

WHAT? Massa is also on this stupid Senna title years on his helmet thing? HWNSNBM damn it, Brazilians, do you want everyone to think you have no place in F1?

"The design celebrates the twentieth anniversary of Ayrton Senna taking his third title and the helmet will be auctioned to raise money for the Foundation that bears his name"

[mario]

Regarding Vettel's puncture, Pirelli are saying that they are unsure of what exactly could have caused his tyre failure, and that it is possible that, given the tyre disintegrated as he drove back to the pits, that they might not be able to ever know for certain. However, Pirelli think that Vettel's tyre failure is more consistent with a failure due to debris, given that the loss in pressure was pretty much instantaneous. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96200

[dr-baker]

Regarding Vettel's puncture, Pirelli are saying that they are unsure of what exactly could have caused his tyre failure, and that it is possible that, given the tyre disintegrated as he drove back to the pits, that they might not be able to ever know for certain. However, Pirelli think that Vettel's tyre failure is more consistent with a failure due to debris, given that the loss in pressure was pretty much instantaneous. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96200

Debris being even more likely considering that Vettel was the first to drive over the kerb and that nobody had any other problems there all race... (equally lifted from the Autosport article).

[mario]

Regarding Vettel's puncture, Pirelli are saying that they are unsure of what exactly could have caused his tyre failure, and that it is possible that, given the tyre disintegrated as he drove back to the pits, that they might not be able to ever know for certain. However, Pirelli think that Vettel's tyre failure is more consistent with a failure due to debris, given that the loss in pressure was pretty much instantaneous. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96200

Debris being even more likely considering that Vettel was the first to drive over the kerb and that nobody had any other problems there all race... (equally lifted from the Autosport article).

Coupled to that, Kravitz spoke to Pirelli after the race to obtain a little more information; it appears that the tyre bead has been heavily damaged (to the point where it has been torn free), but they believe that was the result of, rather than the cause of, the initial tyre failure (i.e. a cut in the tyre caused it to deflate and spin Vettel out of control, and as he slid sideways the tyre bead was torn free).
At the very least Pirelli seem, for now, to be ruling out the theory that the tyre bead was damaged due to the incorrect tyre pressure (i.e. that movement of the side wall due to under inflated tyres tore the tyre bead free from the rim), given that sort of failure hasn't been experienced before during either pre-season testing, the practise sessions or any other race.

Anyway, on a slightly tangential note Kravitz revealed something interesting about Mercedes, and their plans for the Young Driver test that'll be taking place shortly - it appears that Mercedes have fabricated a prototype periscope exhaust system for 2012 (along the lines of what was used by the teams in the mid 2000's), along with a 2012 specification floor, and intend to use the upcoming tests to understand how that effects the handling and behaviour of the car. So, if somebody manages to take a few decent pictures of that, we might well be getting a few hints of how the teams will be approaching the 2012 season...

[Pedestrian]

After watching the race i conclude that Vettel is boring even in failure. Breakdown after two corners and out... pfff, I was expecting something more spectacular for his first DNF in a year.

[eytl]

A few comments from me in lieu of a race review. And no, I didn't even make it to the first corner, I just recorded the whole thing and watched it this morning.

The field spread this year has been really pronounced (compared to recent seasons), but I finally put some numbers to it. There's about 4 seconds per lap from the front of the field down to the tail end of the midfield, and then another 2-3 seconds back to the Virgins and HRTs. That's really been a huge contributing factor to why this season has petered out so badly. The effect of DRS, KERS and the Pirelli tyres is largely negated when the performance levels of the cars are so comparatively spread out.

And whilst the Pirellis still suffer more performance drop than the Bridgestones ever did, what happened to the cliff that everyone feared earlier in the season? Here you had tyres lasting 20-25 laps. I know Pirelli are still experimenting but they've gone a bit too conservative as the season has gone on.

As some of you have pointed out, what's the point of a double-DRS on two back-to-back straights? Mind you, two consecutive straights is a feature of just about every Tilke track with a tight corner (or sequence of corners) in between (Sepang: tick, Shanghai: sort of, Istanbul: tick, Yeongam: tick, Buddh: sort of, Yas Marina: tick). I'm guessing that Tilke's thought process is that it would give the guy who's just been passed a chance (and not more than that) to fight back at the next corner. But with double-DRS zones, the racecraft's taken out of it. If you're being passed, let the other guy go, don't compromise your run out of the corner by fighting needlessly, and get him back in the next zone. Either double-DRS zones have to be on opposite sides of the track, or leave it as a single zone.

Hamilton's always been strong at Abu Dhabi (remember that awesome pole in 2009 in a much-inferior McLaren?) so once Vettel went out it's no surprise he controlled the race. On the other hand, Webber just can't get a feel for this place although kudos to Red Bull for at least trying something different by putting him onto a third set of options to try to get past Massa that way. Something I don't understand with Red Bull's set-up though, which again came to the fore here: all year they have preferred cornering speed over straight line speed. Sure, this helps them with qualifying pace, but even if Webber was on form (which he hasn't been), only one of your cars will be on pole. The other at best will be 2nd and on the dirty side of the track, and at risk of losing places at the start (Webber has simply compounded that with his dreadful starts this year). That high-cornering-speed set up has then immediately compromised your second car (invariably Webber), because all the cornering speed in the world means zilch if you can't get close enough to make use of DRS down the straights (and when your KERS is not the best either).

Why haven't Red Bull learnt from their sister team Toro Rosso, who have often preferred straight line speed to good effect (even if that was not so obvious here)? Or for that matter, they could learn from Jarama 1981, and Gilles Villeneuve's victory when he had a dog of a Ferrari in the corners, but was able to pull away on the straight so no-one could ever pass him.

What's the deal as well with all this sycophantic sympathy for Vettel after his DNF? The guy looked like he was about to cry. 11 wins this season not enough? The fact that even Bernie went down to console him caused me to search for a bucket.

Alonso's move on Button: just about his best (read: "only") moment of assertive aggression all year, other than at the run into the first corner?

I declare the battle for 6th in the constructors' championship over. It's now the shoot-out for 7th. Good work from Kobayashi and Sauber to sneak a point on their alternative strategy. That was the Sushi Chef's Son from Amagasaki's best race in a long time. Although I feel sorry for Buemi, second race in a row where he could have scored points but retired. He could have really capitalised here on a bad day for DJ Squire. Alguersuari's had a much stronger mid-season and end-of-season, but he's still not perfectly consistent, and Buemi's form hasn't dropped off as much as it has in previous years. Ricciardo continues to do well against Liuzzi, but well enough to warrant an STR drive? There's a tough decision to be made there by the Red Bull head-honchos.

Finally, a shout-out to Kovalainen - another fantastic weekend and for much of the race I really thought he could finish in front of (and embarrass) one or two of the midfielders. Believe me, he will be high up in this year's end-of-season rankings.

[FullMetalJack]

Although I feel sorry for Buemi, second race in a row where he could have scored points but retired. He could have really capitalised here on a bad day for DJ Squire. Alguersuari's had a much stronger mid-season and end-of-season, but he's still not perfectly consistent, and Buemi's form hasn't dropped off as much as it has in previous years. Ricciardo continues to do well against Liuzzi, but well enough to warrant an STR drive? There's a tough decision to be made there by the Red Bull head-honchos.

Buemi's performance hasn't dropped at all in my opinion, he's been at a good level all season, but Alguersuari started off dismally but shot up halfway through, the points difference isn't a fair representation of their respective performances this season, Buemi has been terribly unlucky at times this season, especially in the last two races, and at Spa. Don't rank him lowly, as he's been better than people may think.

[Ed24]

Buemi's had some terribly bad luck recently. At Belgium he was taken out whilst running 6th, at Suzuka his wheel fell off after the pitstop whilst in the running for points, there was the engine failure at India, and then today.

His race was reasonable at Abu Dhabi, but he should've learnt his lesson and not passed Di Resta in the first DRS zone, and just waited for the second.

No wonder he looked on the verge (or was it on the Vergne?) of tears at the end of the race!

[mario]

A few comments from me in lieu of a race review. And no, I didn't even make it to the first corner, I just recorded the whole thing and watched it this morning.

The field spread this year has been really pronounced (compared to recent seasons), but I finally put some numbers to it. There's about 4 seconds per lap from the front of the field down to the tail end of the midfield, and then another 2-3 seconds back to the Virgins and HRTs. That's really been a huge contributing factor to why this season has petered out so badly. The effect of DRS, KERS and the Pirelli tyres is largely negated when the performance levels of the cars are so comparatively spread out.

And whilst the Pirellis still suffer more performance drop than the Bridgestones ever did, what happened to the cliff that everyone feared earlier in the season? Here you had tyres lasting 20-25 laps. I know Pirelli are still experimenting but they've gone a bit too conservative as the season has gone on.

I guess that the natural field spread has been compounded by the fact that a lot of teams, knowing where they would finish in the WCC, have slowed down or even stopped developing their cars this year.
After all, Ferrari effectively stopped development around Spa, McLaren were easing back on development around Japan (they've pushed on in some areas, but only where they can carry parts over to 2012), Mercedes has stopped development and Renault has heavily cut back development of their car because their front exiting exhaust rapidly proved out to offer fewer gains than expected and very expensive to develop. After all, about the only team trying to develop their car has been Toro Rosso, in their battel with Sauber, with a modified diffuser (and even that is rumoured to have been effectively gifted to them by Red Bull). Most of the team are already moving into 2012 testing mode - Mercedes are converting the W02 into a 2012 test hack in the Young Driver test - and given that at least the upper half of the field is fixed in position, why bother developing the car any further?

As for Pirelli, they did mention that they were going to be somewhat cautious at the newer venues because the data they had for those venues was much more limited than the earlier, and much more familiar, circuits this year. Besides, to a lesser extent I think that Pirelli's own preference was for a smaller number of pit stops, in the order of 2-3 stops a race; their logic is to make longer stints possible for the midfield teams gambling on stopping less frequently, in turn giving them the chance of making it into the upper points places. Added to that, there is a certain element of the teams adjusting their setups and driving styles to adjust to the tyres - we've routinely seen how the teams have coached their drivers to preserve their tyres in the races and avoid making extra stops, which is why Pirelli wants to make the tyres softer again for next year (to compensate for the adjustments that the teams have made).

What's the deal as well with all this sycophantic sympathy for Vettel after his DNF? The guy looked like he was about to cry. 11 wins this season not enough? The fact that even Bernie went down to console him caused me to search for a bucket.

Given how valuable Vettel's youthful image is for avertising Formula 1, Bernie probably wanted to go and console somebody he views as a walking wallet for him. Added to that, Vettel is said to have been quite keen to cultivate links with Bernie - after the Japanese GP, when he won the title, the very first person he reputedly wanted to talk to after the race was Bernie - so I can see why Bernie would have moved to reassure Vettel.
Overall, though, I agree that the sympathy did seem a little excessive - where was that same degree of sympathy for the other drivers who have retired this season, be they championship contenders or not?

Alonso's move on Button: just about his best (read: "only") moment of assertive aggression all year, other than at the run into the first corner?

I declare the battle for 6th in the constructors' championship over. It's now the shoot-out for 7th. Good work from Kobayashi and Sauber to sneak a point on their alternative strategy. That was the Sushi Chef's Son from Amagasaki's best race in a long time. Although I feel sorry for Buemi, second race in a row where he could have scored points but retired. He could have really capitalised here on a bad day for DJ Squire. Alguersuari's had a much stronger mid-season and end-of-season, but he's still not perfectly consistent, and Buemi's form hasn't dropped off as much as it has in previous years. Ricciardo continues to do well against Liuzzi, but well enough to warrant an STR drive? There's a tough decision to be made there by the Red Bull head-honchos.

Finally, a shout-out to Kovalainen - another fantastic weekend and for much of the race I really thought he could finish in front of (and embarrass) one or two of the midfielders. Believe me, he will be high up in this year's end-of-season rankings.

Lastly, just as an aside - do you think that Force India might just have an outside chance of beating Renault for 5th in the WDC in Brazil? The chances are slim, but Force India are only 15 points behind Renault. Finishing in 5th and 7th place would just be enough, so it would require more attrition than we've seen this year, but to be honest it would be in some ways fitting if Force India did beat Renault, given that Renault's podium finishes are increasingly distant memories and Force India's had more consistent form over the season.

[DanielPT]

I know its only HRT's but even so... KAMUI KOBAYASHI POWEEEERRRRR!!

*I haven't seen this posted anywhere else in this forum but if it is, let me know.

[James1978]

Lastly, just as an aside - do you think that Force India might just have an outside chance of beating Renault for 5th in the WDC in Brazil? The chances are slim, but Force India are only 15 points behind Renault. Finishing in 5th and 7th place would just be enough, so it would require more attrition than we've seen this year, but to be honest it would be in some ways fitting if Force India did beat Renault, given that Renault's podium finishes are increasingly distant memories and Force India's had more consistent form over the season.

You never know given how unpredictable the weather can be in Brazil - saying that I can only remember 2008 of recent years where the weather mixed things up in the race, and qualifying in 2009. It's a longshot but I would quite like to see it happen, partially because I'm sick of this whole Lotus name ruling, even though I am enjoying seeing Kovalainen lead the "other" Lotus!

[AdrianSutil]

Lastly, just as an aside - do you think that Force India might just have an outside chance of beating Renault for 5th in the WDC in Brazil? The chances are slim, but Force India are only 15 points behind Renault. Finishing in 5th and 7th place would just be enough, so it would require more attrition than we've seen this year, but to be honest it would be in some ways fitting if Force India did beat Renault, given that Renault's podium finishes are increasingly distant memories and Force India's had more consistent form over the season.

You never know given how unpredictable the weather can be in Brazil - saying that I can only remember 2008 of recent years where the weather mixed things up in the race, and qualifying in 2009. It's a longshot but I would quite like to see it happen, partially because I'm sick of this whole Lotus name ruling, even though I am enjoying seeing Kovalainen lead the "other" Lotus!

Sadly, I can't see Force India beating Renault. It a shame, as the last few races have seen them score good points through good pace and strategy alone. A high attrition race or the aforementioned rain would help, but 6th is still a great result.

[East Londoner]

And here comes the angst against the blue flags...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96217

[DanielPT]

It seems Mark Webber's car wasn't in top shape during the race.

In his bbc column he said that he picked up some of Vettel's busted tyre which got stuck under the car.

You may have noticed that there was something flapping under my car during the race - it was mentioned in the BBC commentary by Martin Brundle and David Coulthard, who thought it might be bodywork damage.

It turned out it was a piece of my team-mate Sebastian Vettel's punctured tyre from his first-lap incident.

I think I picked it up on the second lap on the back straight, where there was quite a bit of debris left by Seb's attempt to get the car back to the pits.

It smashed the left barge-board back and got pinned on to the car at the front of the floor. The guys were not able to get in there and remove it because the pit stops are normally so fast these days.

That cost me a fair bit of aerodynamic performance.

The cars are not designed to carry bits of flapping rubber around. And the bargeboards - the curved bits of bodywork behind the front wheels - are pretty important in terms smoothing the airflow.

[Ed24]

So much irony in those circumstances!

Not least that Webber's first pitstop was so awful they would've had time to spare to remove the debris.

[mario]

So much irony in those circumstances!

Not least that Webber's first pitstop was so awful they would've had time to spare to remove the debris.

At the very least it explains why he was so cautious in the braking zones, and when he was running behind Button - typical, though, that in the one circumstance where his team mate is not there, he still ends up unintentionally frustrating Webber...

Speaking of Vettel's tyre, Pirelli have ruled out any structural failure of the tyre though they cannot definitely say what caused it to fail - what was left of the tyre after Vettel limped back to the pits was not enough for them to determine what happened. Their best guess is simply that Vettel must have run over some debris, though they did indicate that they could not find anything at that part of the track which could have caused such a failure (which is why the theory that Red Bull might have inflicted that failure on themselves has gained some traction, though if that was the case you'd have expected something like that to have happened earlier in the year).

[shinji]

Even when he's out of the race Vettel ruins his race.