The Bernie Ecclestone Thread

[East Londoner]

The time is long overdue for a thread detailing the capers and bullshit that Bernard Charles Ecclestone periodically comes up with. So here it is. And I start it with this gem

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns24160.html

So Bernie doesn't know what KERS is, and assumes the rest of the F1 audience don't as well. And practically stating that was the reason for the Williams fire, oh bloody dear.

[East Londoner]

And here is our subject, stating the usual claptrap about a new race being 'in doubt'. Again.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/80166.html

[DanielPT]

The time is long overdue for a thread detailing the capers and bullshit that Bernard Charles Ecclestone periodically comes up with. So here it is. And I start it with this gem

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns24160.html

So Bernie doesn't know what KERS is, and assumes the rest of the F1 audience don't as well. And practically stating that was the reason for the Williams fire, oh bloody dear.

Joe Saward thinks Bernie is upping his gamesmanship over the new "green" engines that the FIA will enforce coming 2014. I think the guy may have a point on this one. Bernie never liked the new engine rules and went over from sound to speed as excuses against these rules. He clearly wants to ruffle FIA's feathers, probably because of concorde agreement negotiations, capitalizing on some teams (read Ferrari) annoyance over these rules. If he really wants to, he usually has his way, unfortunately.

[14 Hundred Hours]

The time is long overdue for a thread detailing the capers and bullshit that Bernard Charles Ecclestone periodically comes up with. So here it is. And I start it with this gem

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns24160.html

So Bernie doesn't know what KERS is, and assumes the rest of the F1 audience don't as well. And practically stating that was the reason for the Williams fire, oh bloody dear.

Mind you, I had to explain to a physics teacher the other week what KERS was. On the other hand, you'd think old Bernie might make the effort to find out what it does, seeing as he seems so keen to make races more exciting.

[Sublime_FA11C]

This is going to be a long thread.

Also, water is wet!

[Captain Hammer]

It's well-known that Bernie doesn't like KERS. Nor is he a fan of the 2014 engine regulations. By blaming the fire on the static discharge from an unearthed KERS unit, he can paint the system as being dangerous and attempt to derail the 2014 regulations.

[14 Hundred Hours]

It's well-known that Bernie doesn't like KERS. Nor is he a fan of the 2014 engine regulations. By blaming the fire on the static discharge from an unearthed KERS unit, he can paint the system as being dangerous and attempt to derail the 2014 regulations.

Could we blame the fire on Bernie, paint him as dangerous, and attempt to derail him?

[mario]

The time is long overdue for a thread detailing the capers and bullshit that Bernard Charles Ecclestone periodically comes up with. So here it is. And I start it with this gem

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns24160.html

So Bernie doesn't know what KERS is, and assumes the rest of the F1 audience don't as well. And practically stating that was the reason for the Williams fire, oh bloody dear.

Joe Saward thinks Bernie is upping his gamesmanship over the new "green" engines that the FIA will enforce coming 2014. I think the guy may have a point on this one. Bernie never liked the new engine rules and went over from sound to speed as excuses against these rules. He clearly wants to ruffle FIA's feathers, probably because of concorde agreement negotiations, capitalizing on some teams (read Ferrari) annoyance over these rules. If he really wants to, he usually has his way, unfortunately.

I would agree that Joe is probably on the money with that suggestion - it sounds as if Bernie is attempting his usual strategy of divide and conquer by stirring up divisions over the value of KERS and the 2014 turbo engine program, knowing that there is a noticeable split between the two sides (Renault being the keenest on the new engines, Mercedes having a few qualms but broadly supportive, Cosworth neutral on the idea because it feels that the current regulations favour the manufacturers with their greater spending power and Ferrari against the proposal because they do not feel they'd benefit from the new engines and are annoyed that Red Bull are trying to cripple them by capping engine spending whilst refusing to compromise on spending on aero design teams). Ferrari also potentially has something to lose with the new regulations on KERS given that Mercedes traditionally has had a slight advantage in that area, an advantage that may grow once the storage capacity and charge/discharge rates are increased.

Another area where we might see Bernie interfering in soon will be the current negotiations over future resource restrictions. It is rumoured that Red Bull and Toro Rosso are currently blocking new proposals that would see the FIA police the budgets of the teams from 2013 onwards as part of the latest Resource Restriction Agreement (which lead to Kaltenborn reportedly complaining that Red Bull "doesn't even care whether the sport will even be here in ten years"), mainly over the argument that spending on engines should be capped. As things stand, the current RRA proposal would not cover engines or KERS as things stand, both areas where Red Bull has sometimes lagged behind in the past - and areas that Ferrari are keen to exploit, particularly the engine development side (if they have to go with the new regulations, then they'll try to maximise them for that they are worth).
Given that the Renault engine is still fairly competitive thanks to its fuel consumption advantage, changing the engine regulations would not be entirely in Red Bull's favour if Ferrari could out develop Renault (they could probably afford to outspend Renault), so they wouldn't necessarily be too disappointed to see the current status quo maintained...

[TheBigJ]

And here is our subject, stating the usual claptrap about a new race being 'in doubt'. Again.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/80166.html

No doubt so the organisers can "prove" they're ready by promising him wads of cash for his pool of gold.

[Klon]

(which lead to Kaltenborn reportedly complaining that Red Bull "doesn't even care whether the sport will even be here in ten years")

Straight to the point and correct. Sauber F1 will be in good hands with her.

Bernie Ecclestone sure must feel quite powerful and the thing is: he is completely justified. He has the sport and the teams by the balls, if you forgive me the impolite expression. I really ponder what kind of power vacuum his departure, by whatever cause, will see and am worried since most power vacuums tend to end badly for someone and that someone might just be F1 itself. Perhaps someone should get Ecclestone to take over WRC from now on, would solve both sides' problems.

[pasta_maldonado]

(which lead to Kaltenborn reportedly complaining that Red Bull "doesn't even care whether the sport will even be here in ten years")

Straight to the point and correct. Sauber F1 will be in good hands with her.

Bernie Ecclestone sure must feel quite powerful and the thing is: he is completely justified. He has the sport and the teams by the balls, if you forgive me the impolite expression. I really ponder what kind of power vacuum his departure, by whatever cause, will see and am worried since most power vacuums tend to end badly for someone and that someone might just be F1 itself. Perhaps someone should get Ecclestone to take over WRC from now on, would solve both sides' problems.

The problem is, even though most of his decisions are mind-numbingly stupid and arrogant, he knows how to keep the sport afloat, and make a lot of money for it, and even more for himself.

[mario]

(which lead to Kaltenborn reportedly complaining that Red Bull "doesn't even care whether the sport will even be here in ten years")

Straight to the point and correct. Sauber F1 will be in good hands with her.

Bernie Ecclestone sure must feel quite powerful and the thing is: he is completely justified. He has the sport and the teams by the balls, if you forgive me the impolite expression. I really ponder what kind of power vacuum his departure, by whatever cause, will see and am worried since most power vacuums tend to end badly for someone and that someone might just be F1 itself. Perhaps someone should get Ecclestone to take over WRC from now on, would solve both sides' problems.

The problem is, even though most of his decisions are mind-numbingly stupid and arrogant, he knows how to keep the sport afloat, and make a lot of money for it, and even more for himself. At the moment I don'yt see anyone who can replace him at the moment.

Kaltenborn has performed admirably in her role, having been at the team for a long time (since 2000) - it was in part thanks to here efforts that Sauber survived at all after BMW pulled out of F1. She is evidently quite attached to the team, and it looks like Peter Sauber made a wise decision when appointing her CEO.

As to Bernie, say of him what you will - and many have - but what cannot be denied is that he has routinely had the teams and FIA completely in the palm of his hand, which is impressive given how fractious and quick to turn the teams can sometimes be. That said, the current situation over the Concorde Agreement is still giving him some problems - given that they supply a quarter of the field and have the hefty financial clout of Diamler AG behind them, Mercedes are proving to be a bit of a challenge for Bernie at the moment (although they are negotiating they haven't signed the Concorde Agreement, and it is debatable whether Bernie would be necessarily happy about having the EU Competition Commission pouring over the details of the Concorde Agreement if Mercedes do take him to court, as they have indicated they are prepared to do).

Still, when Bernie does go - and go sooner or later he will, because time and tide waits for no man - I don't think that any one man could take over his role (the few rumours of CVC's plans for FOM post Bernie suggest that they would probably have to divide up Bernie's current tasks between several individuals). As to the impact his departure would have on the longer term stability of the sport, whilst the sustainability of his current practises is questionable (there are already multiple circuit owners whose finances are buckling under the strain of Bernie's escalator fees and increasing economic strife), leaving the sport in control of venture capitalists seeking to milk the sport for cash to invest elsewhere is not much of a better prospect, and in some ways perhaps worse (at least Bernie understands how the teams work).
In the short term things might continue as they are, and in the longer term the sport might well recover, but there could be a period of time (say, five to ten years after Bernie) where things start breaking down; it'd probably coincide with a major rule change that upsets one of the major teams and sparks off a larger argument between the teams, FOM and the FIA over control of the finances of the sport.

[East Londoner]

Is Bernie now trolling BBC viewers I wonder?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/07/bernie-ecclestone-formula-one-free-bbc?newsfeed=true

[Stramala]

Is Bernie now trolling BBC viewers I wonder?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/07/bernie-ecclestone-formula-one-free-bbc?newsfeed=true

Bernie Ecclestone is a total asshat.

That is all.

[Warren Hughes]

Why are we so fanatical about a sport that simply doesn't give a bathplug about us?

[Minardi Man]

Why are we so fanatical about a sport that simply doesn't give a bathplug about us?

Bernie doesn't equal the sport. I hope. That may be wishful thinking these days really, what with the state the team's association is in now.

[LellaLombardi]

Bernie Ecclestone further promotes the efforts of getting a female driver in F1 with this gem on Susie Wolff: "If Susie's as quick in a car as she looks good out of a car, she'll be a huge asset."

[pasta_maldonado]

Bernie Ecclestone further promotes the efforts of getting a female driver in F1 with this gem on Susie Wolff: "If Susie's as quick in a car as she looks good out of a car, she'll be a huge asset."

Bit inappropriate for him to be saying things like that .....

[mario]

Is Bernie now trolling BBC viewers I wonder?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/07/bernie-ecclestone-formula-one-free-bbc?newsfeed=true

Well, to a certain extent it is in Bernie's interests to flatter Sky given that, as the article points out, Sky are promoting the sport more aggressively than the BBC (three times as much F1 related material being broadcast coupled to a swathe of billboard, TV, newspaper and internet adverts - as others have noted in the past, the BBC doesn't really seem to be doing all that much to try to promote their coverage of the sport).

[dr-baker]

Is Bernie now trolling BBC viewers I wonder?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/07/bernie-ecclestone-formula-one-free-bbc?newsfeed=true

All that enters my head is what James Hunt might say (if he shared my opinion): "Bathplug off you motherbathplugger. What a James Allen."

Would like to know what our Italian contigant think of this Sky Italia deal...

[DanielPT]

Is Bernie now trolling BBC viewers I wonder?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/07/bernie-ecclestone-formula-one-free-bbc?newsfeed=true

All that enters my head is what James Hunt might say (if he shared my opinion): "Bathplug off you motherbathplugger. What a James Allen."

Would like to know what our Italian contigant think of this Sky Italia deal...

What Italian contingent? From memory there is only one frequently posting in recent times... Oh you devil!

[eurobrun]

Is Bernie now trolling BBC viewers I wonder?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/07/bernie-ecclestone-formula-one-free-bbc?newsfeed=true

All that enters my head is what James Hunt might say (if he shared my opinion): "Bathplug off you motherbathplugger. What a James Allen."

Would like to know what our Italian contigant think of this Sky Italia deal...

What Italian contingent? From memory there is only one frequently posting in recent times... Oh you devil!

Baker's Law much.

[Klon]

The thing is, Ecclestone has a point. Your (as in "you Brits") entire F1 on TV situation boils down to your "Auntie Beeb" being a b***h. I am certain that with a private channel involved a German-esque TV situation would have been possible. Although admittedly I do not know whether the private channels have enough financial power to provide for such a deal, but there were interested ones such as Channel 4.

[AndreaModa]

The thing is, Ecclestone has a point. Your (as in "you Brits") entire F1 on TV situation boils down to your "Auntie Beeb" being a b***h. I am certain that with a private channel involved a German-esque TV situation would have been possible. Although admittedly I do not know whether the private channels have enough financial power to provide for such a deal, but there were interested ones such as Channel 4.

This is the issue. In the UK there are just three other free-to-air private TV channels. ITV is one, though in recent years has had financial difficulties and falling audiences and a whole string of piss poor programmes. Channel 4 has improved during this time, they've continually put out some excellent, well-reviewed UK comedy shows and their sister station E4 is showing most of the new US comedy/drama series. They've even started showing live regular season American football games on Sunday nights! Channel 5 is well...Channel 5!

The BBC are the only alternative to these stations and have the financial clout that can only be occasionally matched by ITV, and almost always beaten by satellite broadcasters such as Sky.

[East Londoner]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100562

More of the same from Mr Bernard.

[AdrianSutil]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100562

More of the same from Mr Bernard.

He just loves having a dig at the smaller, under-achieving teams doesn't he. He wants new teams in F1 and he gets them. Now he wants them to be more competitive by buying old chassis from top teams. Sorry, won't happen. In no way can I see Red Bull or Ferrari selling an old car to Marussia (McLaren tie-up) or HRT (Williams tie-up). That's my guess though... But no team in F1 trusts the other.

[mario]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100562

More of the same from Mr Bernard.

He just loves having a dig at the smaller, under-achieving teams doesn't he. He wants new teams in F1 and he gets them. Now he wants them to be more competitive by buying old chassis from top teams. Sorry, won't happen. In no way can I see Red Bull or Ferrari selling an old car to Marussia (McLaren tie-up) or HRT (Williams tie-up). That's my guess though... But no team in F1 trusts the other.

Ferrari would probably sell a customer car to a private outfit provided that said private outfit happened to provide them with benefits. Montezemolo, in one of his previous speeches pushing for customer cars, suggested reviving NART (the North American Racing Team), where Chinetti received official factory support from Ferrari to run cars that would promote Ferrari's brand in the US, yet remained semi independent from Ferrari as a private team. Bernie's comments are probably intended to flatter Montezemolo's desire to extent the influence of Ferrari in F1 (being able to create satellite teams dependent on Ferrari, and therefore pack WMSC meetings with teams that could swing votes in his favour), plus appeal to Red Bull given that Toro Rosso effectively ran customer cars and were partially responsible for the eventual ban of customer cars coming in (OK, they were modified to accommodate Ferrari's engines, but they were otherwise the same as the works team, albeit with the junior team often only getting upgrades several races after the works team first got to use them).

[mario]

Looks like the past few days have seen Bernie playing fast and loose with his mouth - he has been talking down the chances of the New Jersey event taking place in 2013 as planned, complaining that he feels that the rate of construction at the venue has been too slow for the circuit to be ready in time. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100659

When asked if he was worried that the event will be ready in time, he said: "Yeah. Exactly."

He added: "I think everybody wants us to be there, it seems that all the politicians are happy, I don't think from that point of view there is any problem. If they get the place finished the way we want it, then I'm sure there'll be a big difference, but I don't think they will."

OK, to be fair to Bernie it seems that Vettel is also somewhat critical of the progress that has been made recently, but it makes me wonder what exactly they expect to see right now given that it is a year in advance and most of the facilities for the event are intended to be temporary buildings (much as is the case in Melbourne).

[Klon]

Looks like the past few days have seen Bernie playing fast and loose with his mouth - he has been talking down the chances of the New Jersey event taking place in 2013 as planned, complaining that he feels that the rate of construction at the venue has been too slow for the circuit to be ready in time. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100659

OK, to be fair to Bernie it seems that Vettel is also somewhat critical of the progress that has been made recently, but it makes me wonder what exactly they expect to see right now given that it is a year in advance and most of the facilities for the event are intended to be temporary buildings (much as is the case in Melbourne).

´
Well, he does that for every new race so I see no reason to assume he would not do this for New Jersey although I must admit that I am dumbstruck as far as his motivation goes in doing it for New Jersey. I mean, for tracks like Korea or Austin it makes sense in a "let's push them a bit" way but as you say, most of the structures for the New Jersey race are temporary and won't be build up until a few weeks before the Grand Prix anyhow so it is kind of hard to grasp the point. However, as much as we like to think of Ecclestone as an old fool, he is not and so he must be going somewhere with this - the only question is ... where?

[mario]

Looks like the past few days have seen Bernie playing fast and loose with his mouth - he has been talking down the chances of the New Jersey event taking place in 2013 as planned, complaining that he feels that the rate of construction at the venue has been too slow for the circuit to be ready in time. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100659

OK, to be fair to Bernie it seems that Vettel is also somewhat critical of the progress that has been made recently, but it makes me wonder what exactly they expect to see right now given that it is a year in advance and most of the facilities for the event are intended to be temporary buildings (much as is the case in Melbourne).

´
Well, he does that for every new race so I see no reason to assume he would not do this for New Jersey although I must admit that I am dumbstruck as far as his motivation goes in doing it for New Jersey. I mean, for tracks like Korea or Austin it makes sense in a "let's push them a bit" way but as you say, most of the structures for the New Jersey race are temporary and won't be build up until a few weeks before the Grand Prix anyhow so it is kind of hard to grasp the point. However, as much as we like to think of Ecclestone as an old fool, he is not and so he must be going somewhere with this - the only question is ... where?

To a certain extent, Bernie was one of the kinder critics when it came to Korea - take, for example, the teams complaining that rubbish they'd thrown out the previous year was still sitting in bins around the circuit, the complaints about a lack of professionalism from the marshals or one mechanic who had the misfortune to return to his hotel to find out that the hotel manager had leased his room out to a couple that he caught in flagrante delicto...

That said, Bernie's criticism of the Korean GP didn't really start ramping up until much closer to the first race, when it was clearer that the construction work was lagging behind schedule - his harshest comments were a few months before that event, not more than a year in advance. I can understand that Bernie might be a little anxious over whether this event really will work given that he has spent decades trying to pull this off, and so wants to be sure it doesn't flop, but even so his attacks are unusually frequent when they are coming this far in advance.

[East Londoner]

Riiight...

[Stramala]

Riiight...

So, Ferrari, then.

[mario]

Riiight...

So, Ferrari, then.

Ferrari would certainly want more power and influence, but Mercedes have also been pushing fairly hard behind the scenes for a similar concession - let us not forget that Mercedes were pushing FOM quite hard over better commercial terms and greater compatibility between race and road track technology (i.e. they want the rules governing engine development to be relaxed rather than tightened).

[East Londoner]

"The Americas are probably big enough to have five or six grands prix," Ecclestone told reporters. "We're trying to get something sorted out in New Jersey/New York, we've had a lot of requests.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/17/motor-racing-prix-us-idUKL3E8MG4AV20121117

Dear me, Bernie's on form once again.

[macherone]

"The Americas are probably big enough to have five or six grands prix," Ecclestone told reporters. "We're trying to get something sorted out in New Jersey/New York, we've had a lot of requests.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/17/motor-racing-prix-us-idUKL3E8MG4AV20121117

Dear me, Bernie's on form once again.

Let's count:

- Brazil
- Canada
- Austin
- New Jersey
- Mexico
- Argentina

Suddenly, that makes lot of sense.

[East Londoner]

Ah.

My excuse: I posted that link 5 minutes after I woke up this morning, and promptly misread the entire quote.

[East Londoner]

For bathplugs sake!

[dinizintheoven]

Wait a mo, Bernie, when we had 10 teams, weren't you saying you wanted a full grid of 13?

All of a sudden what Emperor Montezuma said doesn't sound quite so insulting.

[eytl]

This is the gem I really took notice of:

When asked if he ever considered the possibility of stepping in to save HRT, he said: "I wouldn't think that anyone would want to."

There you have it. Bernard Charles Ecclestone, out of touch with F1 fans. At least those who visit F1 Rejects ...

[Onxy Wrecked]

"The Americas are probably big enough to have five or six grands prix," Ecclestone told reporters. "We're trying to get something sorted out in New Jersey/New York, we've had a lot of requests.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/17/motor-racing-prix-us-idUKL3E8MG4AV20121117

Dear me, Bernie's on form once again.

Let's count:

- Brazil
- Canada
- Austin
- New Jersey
- Mexico
- Argentina

Suddenly, that makes lot of sense.

Sadly, New Jersey is off the table. Hmmm... Watkins Glen's too remote, Detroit's dangerous not as a race track but as a city, Indianapolis is too controversial, Portland hasn't been used as a track for open wheelers since 2007, and Caesar's Palace, Dallas, and Phoenix were disasters. I've got an idea. Build a track in Chile and name it after Eliseo Salazar!