Customer Cars

[homerbhoy]

Can anyone tell me if Customer Cars are being banned for 2010 or later.

If so will Toro Rosso still be on the grid then or have they been sold?

[shinji]

They're banned next year, as far as I know. Toro Rosso may be sold but it's likely they'll just design their own car while Red Bull retain ownership.

[Captain Hammer]

Technically, customer cars have been banned for years. There is, however, a loophole that Red Bull exploits: Red Bull do not sell their chassis to Toro Rosso; rather, the chassis is developed by the Red Bull Technology Centre and sold to both teams. There was nothing in the rules to prevent teams purchasing a chassis from an external source. That loophole is being closed, though teams can still commission a design studio like Dallara to develop a chassis; if Campos make the grid - and they're said to be in die straits - then this is their plan.

Toro Rosso will develop their own chassis from the ground up; they've expanded their base of operations at Faenza so that they cn build them.

[Stramala]

Technically, customer cars have been banned for years. There is, however, a loophole that Red Bull exploits: Red Bull do not sell their chassis to Toro Rosso; rather, the chassis is developed by the Red Bull Technology Centre and sold to both teams. There was nothing in the rules to prevent teams purchasing a chassis from an external source. That loophole is being closed, though teams can still commission a design studio like Dallara to develop a chassis; if Campos make the grid - and they're said to be in die straits - then this is their plan.

Toro Rosso will develop their own chassis from the ground up; they've expanded their base of operations at Faenza so that they cn build them.

Yeah, but I don't understand how its possible to write a rule that means Campos can get a chassis from Dallara, but STR can't from RBT, when it is exactly the same thing. So yeah, RBT are basically the technical department of RBR, but at the end of the day, they are a seperate business.
The FIA would have known it was Campos' plan to run a Dallara chassis when they applied for F1, so whats stopping STR then?

[Paul Hayes]

Presumably the rule is that each outside contractor can only sell its chassis to one team.

[Phoenix]

Technically, customer cars have been banned for years. There is, however, a loophole that Red Bull exploits: Red Bull do not sell their chassis to Toro Rosso; rather, the chassis is developed by the Red Bull Technology Centre and sold to both teams. There was nothing in the rules to prevent teams purchasing a chassis from an external source. That loophole is being closed, though teams can still commission a design studio like Dallara to develop a chassis; if Campos make the grid - and they're said to be in die straits - then this is their plan.

Toro Rosso will develop their own chassis from the ground up; they've expanded their base of operations at Faenza so that they cn build them.

Yeah, but I don't understand how its possible to write a rule that means Campos can get a chassis from Dallara, but STR can't from RBT, when it is exactly the same thing. So yeah, RBT are basically the technical department of RBR, but at the end of the day, they are a seperate business.
The FIA would have known it was Campos' plan to run a Dallara chassis when they applied for F1, so whats stopping STR then?

I think it's because Toro Rosso and Red Bull chassis are almost identical (if not identical at all) and there couldn't be two teams running the same chassis.

[Stramala]

Technically, customer cars have been banned for years. There is, however, a loophole that Red Bull exploits: Red Bull do not sell their chassis to Toro Rosso; rather, the chassis is developed by the Red Bull Technology Centre and sold to both teams. There was nothing in the rules to prevent teams purchasing a chassis from an external source. That loophole is being closed, though teams can still commission a design studio like Dallara to develop a chassis; if Campos make the grid - and they're said to be in die straits - then this is their plan.

Toro Rosso will develop their own chassis from the ground up; they've expanded their base of operations at Faenza so that they cn build them.

Yeah, but I don't understand how its possible to write a rule that means Campos can get a chassis from Dallara, but STR can't from RBT, when it is exactly the same thing. So yeah, RBT are basically the technical department of RBR, but at the end of the day, they are a seperate business.
The FIA would have known it was Campos' plan to run a Dallara chassis when they applied for F1, so whats stopping STR then?

I think it's because Toro Rosso and Red Bull chassis are almost identical (if not identical at all) and there couldn't be two teams running the same chassis.

There is already a rule for that, and the current STR car is eligible within those rules, because a couple of small things are different, it is declared a "completely new" car. And with Intellectual Property Rights and yada yada yada...you get the point.

[Captain Hammer]

Technically, customer cars have been banned for years. There is, however, a loophole that Red Bull exploits: Red Bull do not sell their chassis to Toro Rosso; rather, the chassis is developed by the Red Bull Technology Centre and sold to both teams. There was nothing in the rules to prevent teams purchasing a chassis from an external source. That loophole is being closed, though teams can still commission a design studio like Dallara to develop a chassis; if Campos make the grid - and they're said to be in die straits - then this is their plan.

Toro Rosso will develop their own chassis from the ground up; they've expanded their base of operations at Faenza so that they cn build them.

Yeah, but I don't understand how its possible to write a rule that means Campos can get a chassis from Dallara, but STR can't from RBT, when it is exactly the same thing. So yeah, RBT are basically the technical department of RBR, but at the end of the day, they are a seperate business.
The FIA would have known it was Campos' plan to run a Dallara chassis when they applied for F1, so whats stopping STR then?

Exclusivity arrangement. Campos purchase their chassis from Dallara, and they are the only ones who can do so.

[Fitch]

and Kostas post is the Reason Sauber were on the Grid with their "Own" Car for the last part of the 90's and early 2000's...Despite the fact they were running the Previous Years Ferrari. Sauber went in and Changed enough pieces that they culd call it a Sauber Chassis

[Stramala]

and Kostas post is the Reason Sauber were on the Grid with their "Own" Car for the last part of the 90's and early 2000's...Despite the fact they were running the Previous Years Ferrari. Sauber went in and Changed enough pieces that they culd call it a Sauber Chassis

And lets not forget 1995, when Benetton and Ligier (both owned by Flavio Briatore no less!) ran the same car and got away with it.

Martin Brundle's Ligier JS41 in the 1995 British Grand Prix.


Michael Schumacher's Benetton B195 in the 1995 British Grand Prix

There are some tiny differences, like the rear wing. But thats about it.
Oh no wait! I got the captions the "wrong" way round. Never mind, nobody will be able to tell otherwise...

[shinji]

The thing with that is, why was the Benetton a reasonably dominant World Champion while the Ligier was midfield? Was it all down to Renault engines?

[Stramala]

The thing with that is, why was the Benetton a reasonably dominant World Champion while the Ligier was midfield? Was it all down to Renault engines?

Probably because Benetton cheated. They always have. It runs in the family tree. Why'd you think Singapore-gate happened to Renault of all teams?

[CarlosFerreira]

The thing with that is, why was the Benetton a reasonably dominant World Champion while the Ligier was midfield? Was it all down to Renault engines?

Probably because Benetton cheated. They always have. It runs in the family tree. Why'd you think Singapore-gate happened to Renault of all teams?

That might be a tad unfair. Renault engines were part of the reason, but so was a better technical team, the fact that the chassis was designed by the Benetton people, for the Renault engine (not for the Mugen Honda, which wasn't a full-blown official engine anyway), the technical team was bigger and possibly better, the budget was bigger as well, and there was a Mr M Schumacher involved as well.