Possible updates to "Hall of Shame"

[dr-baker]

Robert Moreno's 2nd Place in the 1990 Japanese GP

Well, there really should have been more, right?

Right. But not in the Andrea Merde in 1992.

[Jeroen Krautmeir]

Robert Moreno's 2nd Place in the 1990 Japanese GP

Well, there really should have been more, right?

Right. But not in the Andrea Merde in 1992.

Indeed!

[DOSBoot]

My point exactly. But those were the best ones I could think of at the moment.

Ludovico Scarfiotti's win at the 1966 Italian GP would also be a good choise.

[watka]

Giancarlo Baghetti for sure. Vittorio Brambilla as well.

[FullMetalJack]

Here's my take: "One Hit Wonder" Awarded to the driver who did an impressive run in one race, only to vanish into obscurity for the rest of their career.

John Love's 2nd place in the 1967 South African GP
Peter Gethin's win in the 1971 Italian GP
Robert Moreno's 2nd Place in the 1990 Japanese GP

Very good idea in my opinion, well done to you for thinking of it.

How about Nico Hulkenberg, scored pole, done little else of notice. Although he is far superior to Maldonado.

[DOSBoot]

Here's my take: "One Hit Wonder" Awarded to the driver who did an impressive run in one race, only to vanish into obscurity for the rest of their career.

John Love's 2nd place in the 1967 South African GP
Peter Gethin's win in the 1971 Italian GP
Robert Moreno's 2nd Place in the 1990 Japanese GP

Very good idea in my opinion, well done to you for thinking of it.

How about Nico Hulkenberg, scored pole, done little else of notice. Although he is far superior to Maldonado.

Thank you. Yeah, Hulkenburg would be a good contender as well. If I get any other good "Hall of Shame" ideas, I'll post it up.

[ibsey]

Wow, just noticed this thread. For the "one hit wonder" idea does Nelson Piquet's Jr 2nd place at German 2008 count?

Also had another idea "Hall of Shame" idea. Best 'Giant Killing' performance. Couple of examples;

1. Ivan Capelli finishing 2nd at France 1990, & almost winning it.
2. Jean Alesi in Phoenix 1990
3. Pierluigi Martini qualifying 2nd or 3rd somewhere (I think it might have been Phoenix 1990 as well?).

[tommykl]

Wow, just noticed this thread. For the "one hit wonder" idea does Nelson Piquet's Jr 2nd place at German 2008 count?

Also had another idea "Hall of Shame" idea. Best 'Giant Killing' performance. Couple of examples;

1. Ivan Capelli finishing 2nd at France 1990, & almost winning it.
2. Jean Alesi in Phoenix 1990
3. Pierluigi Martini qualifying 2nd or 3rd somewhere (I think it might have been Phoenix 1990 as well?).

How about said Martini leading a lap in the Minardi at, I think, Portugal 1989? Or Johansson's podium for Onyx at the same race?
For the "one hit wonder" category, I suggest Reine Wisell's sole podium at the 1970 US Grand Prix, though he did score 9 points the next year...
A more flagrant one is Jo Bonnier's sole win at the 1959 Dutch GP.

[DOSBoot]

Wow, just noticed this thread. For the "one hit wonder" idea does Nelson Piquet's Jr 2nd place at German 2008 count?

Also had another idea "Hall of Shame" idea. Best 'Giant Killing' performance. Couple of examples;

1. Ivan Capelli finishing 2nd at France 1990, & almost winning it.
2. Jean Alesi in Phoenix 1990
3. Pierluigi Martini qualifying 2nd or 3rd somewhere (I think it might have been Phoenix 1990 as well?).

For Capelli, yes. That was a great drive from him.
For Alesi, no. He was way too good to be on that list. 32 Poduims, 2 pole positions, 4 fastest laps, and 1 win. Far from eligible on my list.
For Martini, yes. His 2nd place start at Phoenix 1990 is just one of the reasons why he should have been with a race winning team.

[DOSBoot]

I've been giving it some thought, and I've come up with some more "Hall of Shame" ideas for you guys to debate on.

"The Benchwarmer" Awarded to the driver who had a season from hell, while their teammate won the drivers championship.

1. Derek Daily 1982: Keke Rosberg 1st with 44 points. Daily 13th with just 8.
2. Ricardo Patrase 1983: Nelson Piquet 1st with 59 points. Patrase 9th with just 13.
3. Jochen Mass 1976: James Hunt 1st with 69 points. Mass 9th with 19.

"Mr. Fawlty, and the Austin" (A reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78b67l_yxUc) Awarded to a driver who seemingly had a race win in their grasp, only for their car to fail them at the last minute.

1. Damon Hill's Arrows at the 1997 Hungarian GP
2. Ivan Cappeli's Letyon House March at the 1990 French GP
3. Dan Gurney's Eagle at the 1967 German GP

"Waiting for Godot" Awarded to the driver who's maiden win took an unusually long amount of time before it finally happened to them.

1. Jean Alesi. Year Debut: 1989. Year Win: 1995.
2. Mark Webber. Year Debut: 2002. Year Win: 2009.
3. Jenson Button. Year Debut: 2000. Year Win: 2006.

Hope you like these suggestions.

[dr-baker]

I've been giving it some thought, and I've come up with some more "Hall of Shame" ideas for you guys to debate on.

"The Benchwarmer" Awarded to the driver who had a season from hell, while their teammate won the drivers championship.

1. Derek Daily 1982: Keke Rosberg 1st with 44 points. Daily 13th with just 8.
2. Ricardo Patrase 1983: Nelson Piquet 1st with 59 points. Patrase 9th with just 13.
3. Jochen Mass 1976: James Hunt 1st with 69 points. Mass 9th with 19.

For this section, how about Dave Walker? His only season, best finish of 9th, while his JPS Lotus teammate was the championship-winning Emerson Fittipaldi...

"Waiting for Godot" Awarded to the driver who's maiden win took an unusually long amount of time before it finally happened to them.

1. Jean Alesi. Year Debut: 1989. Year Win: 1995.
2. Mark Webber. Year Debut: 2002. Year Win: 2009.
3. Jenson Button. Year Debut: 2000. Year Win: 2006.

Mansell would be a contender too, wouldn't he?

[QuickYoda41]

"Mr. Fawlty, and the Austin" (A reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78b67l_yxUc) Awarded to a driver who seemingly had a race win in their grasp, only for their car to fail them at the last minute.

1. Damon Hill's Arrows at the 1997 Hungarian GP
2. Ivan Cappeli's Letyon House March at the 1990 French GP
3. Dan Gurney's Eagle at the 1967 German GP

Häkkinen, 2001 Spanish GP?

I like your categories, espacially the name Waiting for Godot.

[DOSBoot]

For this section, how about Dave Walker? His only season, best finish of 9th, while his JPS Lotus teammate was the championship-winning Emerson Fittipaldi...

Mansell would be a contender too, wouldn't he?

They would. Those were the best one that I could think of at the moment.

Häkkinen, 2001 Spanish GP?

I like your categories, espacially the name Waiting for Godot.

Thanks, and yes, Hakkinen would also be a good choise.

[dr-baker]

Häkkinen, 2001 Spanish GP?

I like your categories, espacially the name Waiting for Godot.

Thanks, and yes, Hakkinen would also be a good choise.

Plus Raikkonen, Nurburgring, in the year of the no-tyre-changes.

[ibsey]

two more contenders for the "Waiting for Godot" award.

1. Thierry Boutsen debut (IIRC) 1983, 1st win 1989.
2. Rubens Barrichello debut 1993, 1st win 2000.

& for the "Mr. Fawlty, and the Austin" award, Alesi in Italy 1995 (although he retired about 5 laps from the flag).

[DOSBoot]

two more contenders for the "Waiting for Godot" award.

1. Thierry Boutsen debut (IIRC) 1983, 1st win 1989.
2. Rubens Barrichello debut 1993, 1st win 2000.

& for the "Mr. Fawlty, and the Austin" award, Alesi in Italy 1995 (although he retired about 5 laps from the flag).

Oh how could I have forgotten Rebens?! If it wasn't for Alesi, I think he would have the number 1 spot. If Nick Hiedfeld ever gets his victory, then he would be more than eligible for a place there too.

[Jeroen Krautmeir]

For the Benchwarmer award, I think Niki Lauda 1985 would be good. Alain won the championship while IIRC Niki won only 1 race, and was languishing in the bottom half of the table.

[Wizzie]

I've been giving it some thought, and I've come up with some more "Hall of Shame" ideas for you guys to debate on.

"The Benchwarmer" Awarded to the driver who had a season from hell, while their teammate won the drivers championship.

1. Derek Daily 1982: Keke Rosberg 1st with 44 points. Daily 13th with just 8.
2. Ricardo Patrase 1983: Nelson Piquet 1st with 59 points. Patrase 9th with just 13.
3. Jochen Mass 1976: James Hunt 1st with 69 points. Mass 9th with 19.

"Mr. Fawlty, and the Austin" (A reference to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78b67l_yxUc) Awarded to a driver who seemingly had a race win in their grasp, only for their car to fail them at the last minute.

1. Damon Hill's Arrows at the 1997 Hungarian GP
2. Ivan Cappeli's Letyon House March at the 1990 French GP
3. Dan Gurney's Eagle at the 1967 German GP

"Waiting for Godot" Awarded to the driver who's maiden win took an unusually long amount of time before it finally happened to them.

1. Jean Alesi. Year Debut: 1989. Year Win: 1995.
2. Mark Webber. Year Debut: 2002. Year Win: 2009.
3. Jenson Button. Year Debut: 2000. Year Win: 2006.

Hoe you like these suggestions.

My suggestions:

"Benchwarmer"
Jos Verstappen: Granted he only did 10 races but even so he only scored 10 points in 1994 in what was the second best car on the grid.
Giancarlo Fisichella: See "Fisichellaitis"

"Mr Fawlty and the Austin"
Jean Alesi: Italy 1995
Mika Hakkinen: Spain 2001 (This should be the gold medal winner IMO. He was half a lap ahead of a Mr M. Schumacher before the clutch failed on the last lap)
Nigel Mansell: Canada 1991 (Then again it probably was his own damn fault in the first place )

"Waiting for Godot"

Mika Hakkinen: Debut: 1991. First Win: 1997
Rubens Barrichello: Debut: 1993. First Win: 2000
Jarno Trulli: Debut: 1997. First Win: 2004
Giancarlo Fisichella: Debut: 1996. First Win: 2003

[DOSBoot]

Here's another one I came up with.

"The David Caruso Effect" Awarded to the driver who's career took a nosedive because of a bad team change.

1. Emerson Fittipaldi: From McLaren to Fittipaldi Automotive in 1976.
2. Phil Hill: From Ferrari to ATS in 1963.
3. Damon Hill: From Williams to Arrows in 1997.

[tc3j3r]

Felipe Massa in Hungary 2008 for "Mr Fawlty and the Austin"?

[James1978]

The Benchwarmer might not even have to be against a teammate who won the championship, maybe just one who challenged - I'm thinking of Damon Hill in comparison to Frentzen in 1999!

Then you've got Johnny Dumfries against Senna in 1986 too. (Though Dumfries wasn't exactly regarded as highly as Hill, nor was Frentzen anywhere near as good as Senna!)

[ibsey]

Whoever was M Schumi's teammate in 1994 for the Benchwarmer award.

Struggling to think of any examples for the "The David Caruso Effect" Award off the top of my head (I'm sure there are loads). Maybe Graham Hill, whenever he set up his own team?

I suppose one could also say Patrick Depailler in 1980 & Elio De Angelis in 1986 (but for very different reasons of course). RIP to both of them.

BTW does the award also allow for drivers who didn't move from their existing team (i.e. Jody Schketer in 1980?).

[FullMetalJack]

Here's another one I came up with.

"The David Caruso Effect" Awarded to the driver who's career took a nosedive because of a bad team change.

1. Emerson Fittipaldi: From McLaren to Fittipaldi Automotive in 1975.
2. Phil Hill: From Ferrari to ATS in 1963.
3. Damon Hill: From Williams to Arrows in 1997.

Timo Glock, from Toyota to Virgin, saying that, he had nowhere to go. I know Toyota ain't anything special but 2009 was one of their better seasons. Except 2005 and maybe 2008.

[dinizintheoven]

Timo Glock, from Toyota to Virgin, saying that, he had nowhere to go. I know Toyota ain't anything special but 2009 was one of their better seasons. Except 2005 and maybe 2008.

I suppose Jarno Trulli could also just about fit into that category, although other drivers at the same stage in their careers who had the carpet pulled out from under them may have chosen to go endurance racing rather than have a couple of pension years at an upstart team with a very slow car. Heikki Kovalainen has time on his side to make Fondmetal Team Malaysia competitive; Jarno doesn't.

What about Jacques Villeneuve? From World Champion to a blank scoresheet in the space of two years, never again to take the top step, and well and truly trashing his reputation in the Renault-Sauber-and-almost-Stefan years.

[DOSBoot]

A couple more I came up with.

"The Money Pit" Awarded to the teams who spent a ridiculous amount of money on their project, only to receive less than expected results through their time in F1.

1. Toyota F1
2. Jaguar Racing
3. British American Racing

"With Apologies to Rembrandt" Awarded to the team who had the most ugly looking team livery at the time.

1. The vomit red Williams of 1998.
2. The pea soup green Lotus of 1979.
3. The neon pink Brabham of 1992.

[Wizzie]

A couple more I came up with.

"The Money Pit" Awarded to the teams who spent a ridiculous amount of money on their project, only to receive less than expected results through their time in F1.

1. Toyota F1
2. Jaguar Racing
3. British American Racing

I'm nominating Honda's full tilt as a constructor and Ligier for the award aswell.

[DOSBoot]

Ligier in their early years were kind of on a shoe-string bugdget, and couldn't really afford to be championship contenders. Plus, they won races too, something none of the teams on my list can claim.

[Wizzie]

Ligier in their early years were kind of on a shoe-string bugdget, and couldn't really afford to be championship contenders. Plus, they won races too, something none of the teams on my list can claim.

Yeah buth Monaco 1996 was admittingly a fluke and they did sod all after about 1982

[DOSBoot]

Maybe so, but they would still put up some good performances from time to time.

[FullMetalJack]

Maybe so, but they would still put up some good performances from time to time.

1985, 1986, 1995 were good seasons.

1993 was great, the only reason Ferrari finished ahead of them was because Berger and Alesi > Brundle and Blundell (Not disrespecting Martin and Mark, but Jean and Gerhard were on a different level)

[ibsey]

A couple more I came up with.

"The Money Pit" Awarded to the teams who spent a ridiculous amount of money on their project, only to receive less than expected results through their time in F1.

1. Toyota F1
2. Jaguar Racing
3. British American Racing

Few more nominations here...

For the "The Money Pit" award, can't dispute the orginal top 3 suggested above, but I think an honourable mention should go to BMW, after they took over Sauber. I mean 1 win & 1 pole is not exactly a great return in 4 years from a manufacture like BMW. In particular their decisions from mid 2008 onwards were really 'reject worthy' in my opinion.

For the "The David Caruso Effect" award, I would also like to suggest.

1. Nigel Mansell, Mclaren 1995; explaination not needed.
2. Patrick Tambay & Alain Jones @ Beatrice Ford Lola 1985; Ford's hyped up Turbo engine & team, turned out to be a flop & finished off the careers of an ex world champion & an ex GP winner in the process.
3. Boutsen, Williams 1990; Although he was being kicked out of Williams, I'm sure he could have choosen a better team than Ligier for 1991?


"With Apologies to Rembrandt"

1. Benetton; flag of all nations livery in 1985. yuck.
2. AGS (IIRC) who had that lion painted on their car in 1980.
3. Hated the 'special' Suzuka & Australia livery by Ligier in 1993. Just looked awful for a team that usually had a great livery.

[DOSBoot]

Here's another one.

"The Temp Worker" Awarded to the driver who had an unusually large number of team switches throughout their career.

1. Andrea de Cesaris: Alfa Romeo (1980), McLaren (1981), Alfa Romeo (1982-83), Ligier (1984-85), Minardi (1986), Brabham (1987), Rial (1988), Dallara (1989-90), Jordan (1991), Tyrrell (1992-93), Jordan and Sauber (1994).

2. Eddie Cheever: Theodore and Hesketh (1978), Osella (1980), Tyrrell (1981), Ligier (1982), Renault (1983), Alfa Romeo (1984-85), Haas Lola (1986), Arrows (1987-89).

3. Martin Brundle: Tyrrell (1984-86), Zakspeed (1987), Williams (1988), Brabham (1989, 1991), Benetton (1992), Ligier (1993), McLaren (1994), Ligier (1995), Jordan (1996).

[FullMetalJack]

"Panelbeaters Alert" contender, 1989 French Grand Prix crash resulting in the March of Mauricio Gugelmin being flipped over.

"Severe Brain Fade" not specifically a driver but, the marshalls who flipped Gugelmin's car back over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4ZWSe5-CDs&feature=related

[Phoenix]

Maybe (just maybe) they knew Gugelmin was alright.

[FullMetalJack]

Maybe (just maybe) they knew Gugelmin was alright.

Maybe, but especially with the exposure their necks had, and no Hans, they should have been more careful tipping the car over.

[dinizintheoven]

"With Apologies to Rembrandt"
1. Toleman; flag of all nations livery in 1985. yuck.

Yuck indeed, but: fixed. The team wasn't officially taken over by Benetton until the 1986 season.

2. AGS (IIRC) who had that lion painted on their car in 1980.

AGS did not compete until a handful of races in the 1986 season. I'm guessing you mean Shadow. I had a sort-of-informed guess at it myself, put "Shadow DN9" into Google and what should appear... this. Which was from the 1979 season; the DN11 and DN12 that competed in 1980 only managed one appearance on the grid between them, and the DN11 was all black, the DN12 all white - presumably because of the Theodore takeover.

The fact that they put the radiator where they did, as with a lot of late 1970s cars, made the gaping gob of the lion look completely ridiculous... they could at least have painted some teeth where the number was.

[Aerond]

Here's another one.

"The Temp Worker" Awarded to the driver who with an unusually large number of team switches throughout their career.

1. Andrea de Cesaris: Alfa Romeo (1980), McLaren (1981), Alfa Romeo (1982-83), Ligier (1984-85), Minardi (1986), Brabham (1987), Rial (1988), Dallara (1989-90), Jordan (1991), Tyrrell (1992-93), Jordan and Sauber (1994).

2. Eddie Cheever: Theodore and Hesketh (1978), Osella (1980), Tyrrell (1981), Ligier (1982), Renault (1983), Alfa Romeo (1984-85), Haas Lola (1986), Arrows (1987-89).

3. Martin Brundle: Tyrrell (1984-86), Zakspeed (1987), Williams (1988), Brabham (1989, 1991), Benetton (1992), Ligier (1993), McLaren (1994), Ligier (1995), Jordan (1996).

Honourable mention to Andrea Montermini, who in his short F1 career managed to drive for the Simtek-Pacific-Forti trio... a really incredible effort!

[ibsey]

"With Apologies to Rembrandt"
1. Toleman; flag of all nations livery in 1985. yuck.

Yuck indeed, but: fixed. The team wasn't officially taken over by Benetton until the 1986 season.

2. AGS (IIRC) who had that lion painted on their car in 1980.

AGS did not compete until a handful of races in the 1986 season. I'm guessing you mean Shadow. I had a sort-of-informed guess at it myself, put "Shadow DN9" into Google and what should appear... this. Which was from the 1979 season; the DN11 and DN12 that competed in 1980 only managed one appearance on the grid between them, and the DN11 was all black, the DN12 all white - presumably because of the Theodore takeover.

The fact that they put the radiator where they did, as with a lot of late 1970s cars, made the gaping gob of the lion look completely ridiculous... they could at least have painted some teeth where the number was.

Thanks for the corrections. God only knows how I got AGS mixed up with Shadow? I must have been high or something. Note to self...check Google before posting stuff that i'm not sure on.

I think an honourably mention in the "With Apologies to Rembrandt" award should go to The Hesketh 308D (used between 1976 & 1977), where Penthouse became the first - and so far - only porn peddling sponsor in F1.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... 29,r:5,s:0


In these more politically correct times, its hard to imagine F1's bigger corporates players feeling comfortable about lining up next to a purveyor of adults-only material, but at the time Penthouse's sponsorship was apparently more a source of mild amusement in the paddock than anything else. More Benny Hill than Graham Hill it has to be said.

[dr-baker]

I think an honourably mention in the "With Apologies to Rembrandt" award should go to The Hesketh 308D (used between 1976 & 1977), where Penthouse became the first - and so far - only porn peddling sponsor in F1.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... 29,r:5,s:0


In these more politically correct times, its hard to imagine F1's bigger corporates players feeling comfortable about lining up next to a purveyor of adults-only material, but at the time Penthouse's sponsorship was apparently more a source of mild amusement in the paddock than anything else. More Benny Hill than Graham Hill it has to be said.

Don't forget that Surtees at a similar time was sponsored by Durex, manufacturers of speciality rubber balloons...:

[DanielPT]

I think an honourably mention in the "With Apologies to Rembrandt" award should go to The Hesketh 308D (used between 1976 & 1977), where Penthouse became the first - and so far - only porn peddling sponsor in F1.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... 29,r:5,s:0


In these more politically correct times, its hard to imagine F1's bigger corporates players feeling comfortable about lining up next to a purveyor of adults-only material, but at the time Penthouse's sponsorship was apparently more a source of mild amusement in the paddock than anything else. More Benny Hill than Graham Hill it has to be said.

Don't forget that Surtees at a similar time was sponsored by Durex, manufacturers of speciality rubber balloons...:

I actually like this last Durex livery.