F1Rejects.com

by **tkcom** » 17 Jun 2012, 05:28

Just when being F1 reject is not enough eh Kaz?

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 05:35

In no way was that the Perizzini's fault, the slower cars, especially the GTe-Am guys, are supposed to stick to the racing line, which the Ferrari driver did.
This is not F1, where the slower cars have to bend over to Vettel on a daily basis*, this is endurance racing, if you have a much quicker car, which Davidson did, you are supposed to make the overtake in the safest way possible, and he didnt, it also doesnt help that the blue flags weren't waving, then maybe Perazini would have been more aware.

Look for the blue flags...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzw5i14ewXY

...no wait there arent any.

Marino Franchitti, deltawing driver, who wasnt in the car at the time of the #7 toyota hitting his teammate Satoshi Motoyama "i see his spatial awareness hasn't improved from his f1 days"

Nice one Marino :lol:

*I'm guessing that still happens now right?

PS: how nice of you to bump the page once Davidson crashed and not when Romain Dumas ripped the front of his R18 off after crashing, WITH HIS BARE HANDS!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wMbhgjR ... detailpage

Toyota's race is now about survival rather than a competitive battle with Audi, Kazuki kinda ruined it.

by **mario** » 17 Jun 2012, 06:09

ADx_Wales wrote:In no way was that the Perizzini's fault, the slower cars, especially the GTe-Am guys, are supposed to stick to the racing line, which the Ferrari driver did.
This is not F1, where the slower cars have to bend over to Vettel on a daily basis*, this is endurance racing, if you have a much quicker car, which Davidson did, you are supposed to make the overtake in the safest way possible, and he didnt, it also doesnt help that the blue flags weren't waving, then maybe Perazini would have been more aware.

Look for the blue flags...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzw5i14ewXY

...no wait there arent any.

Marino Franchitti, deltawing driver, who wasnt in the car at the time of the #7 toyota hitting his teammate Satoshi Motoyama "i see his spatial awareness hasn't improved from his f1 days"

Nice one Marino

*I'm guessing that still happens now right?

PS: how nice of you to bump the page once Davidson crashed and not when Romain Dumas ripped the front of his R18 off after crashing, WITH HIS BARE HANDS!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wMbhgjR ... detailpage

Toyota's race is now about survival rather than a competitive battle with Audi, Kazuki kinda ruined it.

Although it may perhaps be slightly harsh to put all of the blame on Perazzini, he stated quite clearly that he was fully aware that Davidson was closing up behind him (he stated that he could see Davidson in his mirrors, but decided to turn into the corner anyway because he believed that Davidson was further behind him than he actually was). It isn't so much a question of awareness, given that he knew Davidson was catching him, but more of Perazzini's judgement based on that knowledge.

by **Cynon** » 17 Jun 2012, 06:27

mario wrote:Although it may perhaps be slightly harsh to put all of the blame on Perazzini, he stated quite clearly that he was fully aware that Davidson was closing up behind him (he stated that he could see Davidson in his mirrors, but decided to turn into the corner anyway because he believed that Davidson was further behind him than he actually was). It isn't so much a question of awareness, given that he knew Davidson was catching him, but more of Perazzini's judgement based on that knowledge.

In other words; Davidson didn't make sure that Perazzini knew he was coming and made a far too aggressive move.

Also, bathplug off Toyota, get drivers that aren't pieces of shite.

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 06:47

Good News for Deltawing Haters: The Car is out, the side effects from Kazuki's skill of backmarker passing have taken their toll, you must regard Kazuki Nakajima as your lord and saviour!

Bad News for Deltawing Lovers: The Car is out, Kazuki Nakajima is a noob.

by **RealRacingRoots** » 17 Jun 2012, 06:51

Cynon wrote:In other words; Davidson didn't make sure that Perazzini knew he was coming and made a far too aggressive move.

Also, bathplug off Toyota, get drivers that aren't pieces of shite.

It's a shame that the Dome hasn't had a clean race mechanically, I would have enjoyed seeing it race at the front as both Toyotas fell by the wayside. The Toyota lineups aren't that bad per se they just need experienced drivers to take the reigns and then bring in the new guys like Buemi and KazNak. (They are doign a similar lineup to what Peugeot did in the early years of the 908, in terms of former-F1ers.)

Since the DeltaWing is now out, hopefully it runs at Petit Le Mans because the car has shown what it can do beautifully. Seeing one hit wonders at Le Mans always leaves a sour taste in my mouth. (Just like the Dome after 2008.)

by **AndreaModa** » 17 Jun 2012, 06:52

It's clear that the Toyota boys haven't covered themselves in glory, but despite that I want to see them do well and take the fight to Audi, because it's just what the WEC needs as it starts out. A bit of competition between the two manufacturers will spur both on to do better, and the prospect of a good battle will not only attract greater interest and attention in the series, it will most likely encourage other manufacturers to enter. I note that Mazda will be supplying diesel engines to LMP2 teams from 2013 onwards so that's another good development.

I desperately don't want to see another Audi whitewash, if only for the good of the series. It would be great to get a Toyota on the podium, considering how quickly they've had to put that car and team together.

by **IdeFan** » 17 Jun 2012, 06:53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NOPOkcLeLRU

Video of Davidson crash, what is it with Ferraris and the works teams? Also the uglification of the cars this year (fins and holes) doesn't seem to have made much of a difference.

ADx: If I was a Deltawing hater I would have gone with "OMG the Deltawing's inability to turn has now taken out one of the race leaders and ruined the race upfront, it should never have been allowed to race"

Instead I will go with "Nakajima is an idiot."

by **Ferrarist** » 17 Jun 2012, 07:00

AndreaModa wrote:I desperately don't want to see another Audi whitewash, if only for the good of the series. It would be great to get a Toyota on the podium, considering how quickly they've had to put that car and team together.

So do I. But it's pretty unlikely that Rebellion will close the gap to the Audi. Not to mention the actual works Toyota. But who knows what will happen during the next hours to the Audi...probably nothing. But the other classes are still worth watching, especially the usual showstealers, GTE-Pro.

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 08:24

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 08:27

Michael Krumm: The first test, the car was turning too much.

Get that, it was OVERSTEERING on its opening run

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 08:29

by **JeremyMcClean** » 17 Jun 2012, 09:07

So this is what Toyota is into these days? If they had the car livery blue and white (like on their overalls) instead of red and white, it would be a bloody good livery. Oh, and I doubt Toyota will win at all. Just like good 'ol times, right? :roll:

by **Nuppiz** » 17 Jun 2012, 09:09

JeremyMcClean wrote:If they had the car livery blue and white (like on their overalls) instead of red and white, it would be a bloody good livery.

Oh yeah.

by **JeremyMcClean** » 17 Jun 2012, 09:10

Nuppiz wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:If they had the car livery blue and white (like on their overalls) instead of red and white, it would be a bloody good livery.

Oh yeah.

No, no, the same style as their current car but blue instead of red. What year does that car come from?

by **Nuppiz** » 17 Jun 2012, 09:17

JeremyMcClean wrote:No, no, the same style as their current car but blue instead of red. What year does that car come from?

1988.

It just sprung to mind, it's a great car to have in Gran Turismo 4.

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 09:41

It is yet to be confirmed, but it looks like the final nail in the coffin for Toyota...

by **AndreaModa** » 17 Jun 2012, 10:11

Nuppiz wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:No, no, the same style as their current car but blue instead of red. What year does that car come from?

1988.

It just sprung to mind, it's a great car to have in Gran Turismo 4.

I keep umm-ing and ahh-ing over whether to get the kit Tamiya makes of that car (that's what the photo is actually of) but I've heard Tamiya's sportscars are hellish to put together, so I may not bother! I love the old prototypes of that era though, such beautiful, sleek, mean beasts.

by **Myrvold** » 17 Jun 2012, 10:20

JeremyMcClean wrote:So this is what Toyota is into these days? If they had the car livery blue and white (like on their overalls) instead of red and white, it would be a bloody good livery. Oh, and I doubt Toyota will win at all. Just like good 'ol times, right?

Sorry, but... The toyota is blue? :S

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 11:32

I reckon its a change from the obvious Red and white which has failed them on so many occasions...

by **Stramala** » 17 Jun 2012, 11:33

The lesson of all of this is Toyota need to hire proper endurance drivers. Nic Minassian and Emmanuel Collard are targets that come to mind they should be looking at as replacements for Davidson and KazNak.

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 11:36

McNish is on the end of his Audi contract, hint hint. Ignoring that ONE mistake at last years le mans he can cut through traffic like a hot knife through frozen butter.

by **Stramala** » 17 Jun 2012, 11:52

The Dome is literally flying :shock:

Minassian very lucky not to put it in the wall

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 11:58

The dome has now done more laps than either of the toyotas!

by **ADx_Wales** » 17 Jun 2012, 12:02

http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewArtic ... 8C17D85501

by **F1000X** » 17 Jun 2012, 17:33

So I got my father a 46 inch (116 cm) television for father's day; he's gone to bed, and I'm sitting in front of this monstrosity, eyes wide, taking in the awesome that is Le Mans in 1080p. I can't wait to watch F1 on this thing.

Here's a question, if does come down to a straight fight between 2 (or 3) of the Audis in the closing laps, does Ulrich let them have at it?

by **mario** » 17 Jun 2012, 18:25

F1000X wrote:So I got my father a 46 inch (116 cm) television for father's day; he's gone to bed, and I'm sitting in front of this monstrosity, eyes wide, taking in the awesome that is Le Mans in 1080p. I can't wait to watch F1 on this thing.

Here's a question, if does come down to a straight fight between 2 (or 3) of the Audis in the closing laps, does Ulrich let them have at it?

Probably not - he'll probably tell them to drive to a target time that ensures that they don't get too close to each other on track.

kostas22 wrote:The lesson of all of this is Toyota need to hire proper endurance drivers. Nic Minassian and Emmanuel Collard are targets that come to mind they should be looking at as replacements for Davidson and KazNak.

If Toyota enter any other races this year, they might be replacing Davidson for very different reasons - although the initial reports suggested he was OK, the latest reports from hospital say he has two fractured vertebrae, which means that he is going to be out of action for some time.

Website · by **Wizzie** » 17 Jun 2012, 18:45

mario wrote:
kostas22 wrote:The lesson of all of this is Toyota need to hire proper endurance drivers. Nic Minassian and Emmanuel Collard are targets that come to mind they should be looking at as replacements for Davidson and KazNak.

If Toyota enter any other races this year, they might be replacing Davidson for very different reasons - although the initial reports suggested he was OK, the latest reports from hospital say he has two fractured vertebrae, which means that he is going to be out of action for some time.

That'll mean he won't be able to meet his Sky commitments then, correct?

by **the Masked Lapwing** » 17 Jun 2012, 20:11

I never realised how big the tyres on the LMPs are...

by **AdrianSutil** » 17 Jun 2012, 22:08

POSITIONS AFTER 21 HOURS

Pos Car Drivers Class Laps Gap
1. #2 Audi McNish/Capello/Kristensen LMP1 333
2. #1 Audi Lotterer/Fassler/Treluyer LMP1 332 + 1 Lap
3. #4 Audi Jarvis/Bonanomi/Rockenfeller LMP1 330 + 3 Laps
4. #3 Audi Gene/Dumas/Duval LMP1 324 + 9 Laps
5. #12 Lola Prost/Heidfeld/Jani LMP1 322 + 11 Laps
6. #22 HPD Brabham/Dumbreck/Chandhok LMP1 313 + 20 Laps
7. #44 HPD Potolicchio/Dalziel/K-Smith LMP2 311 + 22 Laps
8. #46 Oreca Thiriet/Beche/Tinseau LMP2 310 + 23 Laps
9. #49 Oreca Perez Companc/Kaffer/Ayari LMP2 310 + 22.433s
10. #26 Oreca Ragues/Panciatici/Rusinov LMP2 308 + 25 Laps
11. #13 Lola Belicchi/Bleekemolen/Primat LMP1 305 + 28 Laps
12. #41 Zytek Zugel/Julian/Gonzalez LMP2 305 + 19.226s
13. #25 Oreca Martin/Charouz/Graves LMP2 304 + 29 Laps
14. #21 HPD Leventis/Kane/Watts LMP1 302 + 31 Laps
15. #35 Morgan H Hansson/Leinders/Martin LMP2 297 + 36 Laps
16. #42 Zytek Brundle/Brundle/Ordonez LMP2 297 + 1m54.596s
17. #23 Oreca Tresson/Mailleux/Lombard LMP2 297 + 3m01.397s
18. #51 Ferrari Fisichella/Bruni/Vilander GTEP 295 + 38 Laps
19. #59 Ferrari Makowiecki/Melo/Farnbacher GTEP 292 + 41 Laps
20. #97 Aston Mucke/Fernandez/Turner GTEP 291 + 42 Laps
21. #50 Corvette Bornhauser/Canal/Lamy GTEA 288 + 45 Laps
22. #67 Porsche Pons/Armindo/Narac GTEA 288 + 0.332s
23. #73 Corvette Garcia/Magnussen/Taylor GTEP 286 + 47 Laps
24. #71 Ferrari Bertolini/Beretta/Cioci GTEP 285 + 48 Laps
25. #45 Oreca Briere/Nakano/Petersen LMP2 284 + 49 Laps
26. #57 Ferrari Krohn/Jonsson/Rugolo GTEA 283 + 50 Laps
27. #40 Oreca Frey/Hirschi/Meichtry LMP2 278 + 55 Laps
28. #79 Porsche Neiman/Pumpelly/Pilet GTEA 274 + 59 Laps
29. #70 Corvette Bourret/Gibon/Belloc GTEA 270 + 63 Laps
30. #55 Porsche Daniels/Palttala/Camathias GTEA 269 + 64 Laps
31. #43 Norma Rosier/Haezebrouck/Thirion LMP2 268 + 65 Laps
32. #61 Ferrari Kauffman/Aguas/Vickers GTEA 264 + 69 Laps
33. #83 Ferrari Rodrigues/Illiano/Ferte GTEA 253 + 80 Laps
34. #74 Corvette Gavin/Westbrook/Milner GTEP 204 + 129 Laps
35. #17 Dome Minassian/Bourdais/Ara LMP1 201 + 132 Laps
36. #38 Zytek Hancock/Dolan/Kurosawa LMP2 271 Retired
37. #33 HPD Tucker/Bouchut/Diaz LMP2 240 Retired
38. #30 Lola Sims/Buurman/Iannetta LMP2 239 Retired
39. #88 Porsche Ried/Roda/Ruberti GTEA 222 Retired
40. #15 OAK Montagny/Kraihamer/Baguette LMP1 219 Retired
41. #66 Ferrari Walker/Cocker/Wills GTEP 204 Retired
42. #48 Oreca Firth/Hartley/Hughes LMP2 196 Retired
43. #77 Porsche Lietz/Lieb/Henzler GTEP 184 Retired
44. #75 Porsche al Faisal/Curtis/Edwards GTEA 180 Retired
45. #31 Lola Holzer/Schultis/Moro LMP2 155 Retired
46. #58 Ferrari Ehret/Jeannette/Montecalvo GTEA 146 Retired
47. #24 Morgan Nicolet/Lahaye/Pla LMP2 139 Retired
48. #7 Toyota Wurz/Lapierre/Nakajima LMP1 134 Retired
49. #80 Porsche Bergmeister/Long/Holzer GTEP 114 Retired
50. #28 Lola Giroix/Badey/Johansson LMP2 92 Retired
51. #8 Toyota Davidson/Buemi/Sarrazin LMP1 82 Retired
52. #0 DeltaWing Franchitti/Krumm/Motoyama CDNT 75 Retired
53. #81 Ferrari Perazzini/Cadei/Griffin GTEA 70 Retired
54. #99 Aston Nygaard/Poulsen/Simonsen GTEA 31 Retired
55. #16 Pescarolo Collard/Bouillon/Hall LMP1 20 Retired
56. #29 Lola Ihara/Deletraz/Rostan LMP2 17 Retired

by **Davidellias** » 17 Jun 2012, 22:35

Cynon wrote:In other words; Davidson didn't make sure that Perazzini knew he was coming and made a far too aggressive move.

Also, bathplug off Toyota, get drivers that aren't pieces of shite.

Wait wasn't Davidson the driver that intentionally wrecked the Corvette a year or two ago?

by **Shadaza** » 18 Jun 2012, 01:39

Congrats to Audi but I will always have this car as my favorite:

I love Prototypes. They look like something a 10 year old would pen.

by **mario** » 18 Jun 2012, 04:05

Wizzie wrote:
mario wrote:
kostas22 wrote:The lesson of all of this is Toyota need to hire proper endurance drivers. Nic Minassian and Emmanuel Collard are targets that come to mind they should be looking at as replacements for Davidson and KazNak.

If Toyota enter any other races this year, they might be replacing Davidson for very different reasons - although the initial reports suggested he was OK, the latest reports from hospital say he has two fractured vertebrae, which means that he is going to be out of action for some time.

That'll mean he won't be able to meet his Sky commitments then, correct?

For the short term, it is possible that he will be unable to fulfil his commitments at Sky - he has been speaking about his condition from hospital, and the initial assessment from the doctors is that it will take around three weeks for him to recover some of his mobility and for the worst of his pain to subside, although it may take as long as three months before his vertebrae are fully healed. Based on that time frame, therefore, he will probably be unavailable for the European GP and potentially the British GP (which is about three weeks away), but potentially able to present after that. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100471

by **nome66** » 18 Jun 2012, 04:50

so yeah. Audi pulled a Ford at LeMans. now all we need is Toyota to get their Ferraris back in working condition for next year...

by **dr-baker** » 18 Jun 2012, 06:55

Wait, why all the hate against Davidson in this thread? He is amongst my favourite F1 Reject drivers, and he had a ton(ne) of success for Peugeot in sportscars...

And the video embedded in this Autosport video shows why I am not a DeltaWing hater (trying vailliantly to continue) and why KazNak is a plonker.

by **BlindCaveSalamander** » 18 Jun 2012, 07:04

dr-baker wrote:Wait, why all the hate against Davidson in this thread? He is amongst my favourite F1 Reject drivers, and he had a ton(ne) of success for Peugeot in sportscars...

I know, it seems kind of out of left field for me, I always rated Davidson as quite a good driver, unfortunate never to get a proper shot at F1.

by **mario** » 18 Jun 2012, 08:22

dr-baker wrote:And the video embedded in this Autosport video shows why I am not a DeltaWing hater (trying vailliantly to continue) and why KazNak is a plonker.

To be fair to Nakajima in one sense, he might have found it hard to see the DeltaWing car because the very low driver seating position, combined with the oversized front fenders and relatively small side windows, means that the side visibility of the closed cockpit LMP1 cars is fairly poor. In the thread on the possibility of seeing F1 style engines in sports cars, there is a pdf from the ACO that shows how limited the side visibility of the prototype cars currently is, and the DeltaWing might well have been outside of Nakajima's vision at the point of impact.
Still, given that there were a great number of GT and LMP2 cars mixed up in that safety car train, not to mention that Toyota had just lost one car already in the accident which caused that very safety car period, Nakajima should have been a bit more cautious when following the Audi (perhaps choosing to just follow behind them rather than trying to get past on what is a very fast and tight section of track).

On another note, that was a very valiant, even if ultimately unsuccessful, attempt by Motoyama - I'm also interested in how heavily the DeltaWing and the TS030 were damaged by that impact between the two cars (you half suspect that the R18's might have taken the hit better than the TS030 given the amount of damage they were capable of taking earlier in the race).

by **ADx_Wales** » 18 Jun 2012, 09:15

Wednesday: Giancarlo Fisichella bins the #51 Ferrari 458 into the Porsche Curves, his co drivers are the Fin Toni Vilander, and Italian Gianmaria Bruni, car surely looks to be unable to qualify for the race

Thursday: In the final 30 minutes of Qualifying, the #51 is rebuilt and qualifies 16th in class.

Saturday: Gets up to 3rd in class after the first two hours, Has epic battle with the #74 Chevy and # 97 Aston for the next four.

Sunday: Wins By Three Laps.

by **dr-baker** » 18 Jun 2012, 21:13

mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:And the video embedded in this Autosport video shows why I am not a DeltaWing hater (trying vailliantly to continue) and why KazNak is a plonker.

To be fair to Nakajima in one sense, he might have found it hard to see the DeltaWing car because the very low driver seating position, combined with the oversized front fenders and relatively small side windows, means that the side visibility of the closed cockpit LMP1 cars is fairly poor. In the thread on the possibility of seeing F1 style engines in sports cars, there is a pdf from the ACO that shows how limited the side visibility of the prototype cars currently is, and the DeltaWing might well have been outside of Nakajima's vision at the point of impact.

Ooops, yeah. Forgot that when I rushed to call Nakajima a plonker. I had read that before, and had 'conveniently' failed to remember that. Thanks for the correction mario.

by **mario** » 19 Jun 2012, 00:54

dr-baker wrote:
mario wrote:
dr-baker wrote:And the video embedded in this Autosport video shows why I am not a DeltaWing hater (trying vailliantly to continue) and why KazNak is a plonker.

To be fair to Nakajima in one sense, he might have found it hard to see the DeltaWing car because the very low driver seating position, combined with the oversized front fenders and relatively small side windows, means that the side visibility of the closed cockpit LMP1 cars is fairly poor. In the thread on the possibility of seeing F1 style engines in sports cars, there is a pdf from the ACO that shows how limited the side visibility of the prototype cars currently is, and the DeltaWing might well have been outside of Nakajima's vision at the point of impact.

Ooops, yeah. Forgot that when I rushed to call Nakajima a plonker. I had read that before, and had 'conveniently' failed to remember that. Thanks for the correction mario.

That's OK - although your point does still stand to a certain extent, because, given the number of much slower moving cars that were surrounding the Audi's and Nakajima's Toyota at the time, it is always risky to start swerving from one side of the track to the other (especially if your visibility is quite limited, as was almost certainly the case in Nakajima's case). Whilst I can understand that Nakajima might have been very keen to try to take the lead at the time, given that this was the first point in the race where it looked like Toyota had a realistic chance of doing so on merit, it is very difficult to pass another car with similar performance figures around that part of the track and Nakajima would have been a lot better off if he'd just stuck behind the leader and tried to pass him towards the end of the lap.
On another note, whilst the race might have been a triumph for the Rebellion Racing team after they managed a fine 4th place (as an aside, Heidfeld was being given quite a few plaudits for his driving from Neel Jani - it sounds as if his approach to Le Mans was a bit more patient than Nakajima's), there are some major concerns at Rebellion over the rest of the season. According to Bart Heyden, the head of the team, the fact that Lola Cars is now in administration (and with only 28 of the 65 workers remaining at Lola, the rest having been made redundant some time ago), plus the fact that Lola Cars no longer owns the IP rights to its cars, means that all of the teams using Lola chassis, including Rebellion, are fast running out of spare parts (one or two teams were worried that they might not even have enough parts for Le Mans).
At the moment, the team are looking into alternatives - the Dome S102.5 looks like a favourite at the moment - but if no alternative car can be found, there is a very strong possibility that Rebellion will have to pull out of the WEC before the end of the season due to a lack of parts. http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... lola-cars/

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