The World Rally Championship thread

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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 17 Jun 2012, 09:55

dr-baker wrote:It was described on Autosport as being similar to Robert Kubica's accident, so even if Kubica never returns to F1, it shows how fortunate he was and how unfortunate Gareth Roberts was. RIP.

It was shockingly similar. The end of an armco barrier penetrated the co-driver's side of the car all the way through. It looked absolutely terrible.

Considering this has now happened twice in just over a year, I think rally organisers need to look at ways of avoiding high speeds near these ends of armco barriers. Or perhaps surround the ends with a tyre wall or those special barriers they use at the chicane after the tunnel at Monaco.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Wizzie » 23 Jun 2012, 21:18

You know a series is in trouble when we go two days into a rally with nobody saying a single word about it :|
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby East Londoner » 23 Jun 2012, 21:29

Wizzie wrote:You know a series is in trouble when we go two days into a rally with nobody saying a single word about it :|

It's not really that surprising when a Mr S. Loeb is in complete control of the rally once again. :|

And here we go again. :evil:
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby mario » 23 Jun 2012, 22:13

East Londoner wrote:
Wizzie wrote:You know a series is in trouble when we go two days into a rally with nobody saying a single word about it :|

It's not really that surprising when a Mr S. Loeb is in complete control of the rally once again. :|

And here we go again. :evil:

Whereas yesterday, when Loeb was chasing Hirvonen, Matton conveniently allowed both drivers to fight each other for position...
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 23 Jun 2012, 22:34

I really do not care about the WRC anymore. The sport is a joke. It's like if AutoGP claimed it was the biggest single seater series in the world :|
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Shizuka » 23 Jun 2012, 23:32

The lack of manufacturers from 2006 onwards slowly started to kill the WRC.
Subaru left, Mitsubishi left, Skoda left, Peugeot left, (and earlier Hyundai left, Seat left) Suzuki tried and failed in... 2008 I think...? Loeb just fastens its death up...
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby AndreaModa » 23 Jun 2012, 23:57

It's a joke. I'd rather not read the stage reports because at least then I could create an illusion in my head that it was actually a proper World Championship with some decent competition.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby pasta_maldonado » 24 Jun 2012, 00:49

AndreaModa wrote:It's a joke. I'd rather not read the stage reports because at least then I could create an illusion in my head that it was actually a proper World Championship with some decent competition.

The World Rally Championship at the moment is like the F1 field consisting of Vettel, Massa, M Schumacher, and 21 Karthikeyans.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby mario » 24 Jun 2012, 04:16

pasta_maldonado wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:It's a joke. I'd rather not read the stage reports because at least then I could create an illusion in my head that it was actually a proper World Championship with some decent competition.

The World Rally Championship at the moment is like the F1 field consisting of Vettel, Massa, M Schumacher, and 21 Karthikeyans.

It's even sadder that the WRC can't even muster that many entries (they are down to 13 entries for this particular round), which is pathetic - I know that the long haul events have seen their entry lists plummeting in recent years, but at this rate they'll struggle to even get enough entrants to fill out the points positions in the future (assuming that the WRC lasts much longer).
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby tommykl » 24 Jun 2012, 04:28

Thierry Neuville is now unrejectified. The WRC must be at an all-time low.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 24 Jun 2012, 04:47

tommykl wrote:Thierry Neuville is now unrejectified. The WRC must be at an all-time low.

That's a bit harsh, he actually looked really quick when he raced for Citroen in the now defunct JWRC!

However, if Ken Block were to ever be unrejectified, the sport should be be disbaned for being a total disgrace to world motorsport.

You know what another problem is? The drivers. Not because of their skill, but because of their personality. Man, drivers these days are boring, and they're all either Scandinavian or French. There's no big names fighting the British corner, or for Spain, or Italy, just...France and places not too far from the Arctic Circle. And apart from Petter Solberg they have zero personality. Latvala writes off his car and mopes every weekend, Hirvonen just shrugs his shoulders and moves on, and Loeb comes out with the same old platitudes week after week. Ogier was the only driver apart from Solberg that at least tried to spite things up when he started having a go at Citroen for favouring Loeb. But now he's in S2000 we don't hear from him because nothing he says matters now.

People actually cared what happened to Makkinen, Gronholm, McRae, Sainz, Burns, Vatanen, Kankkunen, Alen, etc etc, they were revered in the same manner F1 drivers are. An alumni of Loeb, Latvala, Hirvonen, Solberg, Ostberg, Tanak, Neuville, it just sounds so bland and uninspiring.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby pasta_maldonado » 24 Jun 2012, 04:48

mario wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:It's a joke. I'd rather not read the stage reports because at least then I could create an illusion in my head that it was actually a proper World Championship with some decent competition.

The World Rally Championship at the moment is like the F1 field consisting of Vettel, Massa, M Schumacher, and 21 Karthikeyans.

It's even sadder that the WRC can't even muster that many entries (they are down to 13 entries for this particular round), which is pathetic - I know that the long haul events have seen their entry lists plummeting in recent years, but at this rate they'll struggle to even get enough entrants to fill out the points positions in the future (assuming that the WRC lasts much longer).

In a way I feel sorry for the series organisers because now they are effectively flogging a dead horse, but it is their and the FIA's incompetance and reluctance to change the rules to make the series more appealing that have ruined the series. I'll refer you to this post for my opinion on what they should have done/should do
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby dr-baker » 24 Jun 2012, 05:44

The only time I got genuinely interested and cared about the result is when Kris Meeke was in the Prodrive Mini... Didn't last long, did it? And there was a time when Mini had scored a podium in about 50% of its rallies, after Monte this year. Again, didn't last long, did it? Only thing going to get me caring much again is if Petter Solberg could genuinely challenge Loeb for the title...
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 24 Jun 2012, 06:28

dr-baker wrote:The only time I got genuinely interested and cared about the result is when Kris Meeke was in the Prodrive Mini... Didn't last long, did it? And there was a time when Mini had scored a podium in about 50% of its rallies, after Monte this year. Again, didn't last long, did it? Only thing going to get me caring much again is if Petter Solberg could genuinely challenge Loeb for the title...

Kris Meeke? Meh.

We need more Marcus Gronholms. Damn I miss that guy. He was the reason I watched WRC beyond 2006. Was heartbroken when he slid into that wall in Ireland, in 2007 I think it was? He was Loeb's only equal after the other greats had left the sport. Hirovnen and Latavala will never match him.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Shadaza » 24 Jun 2012, 07:19

The whole Rally sport in general seems to be going down the toilet.

Dani Sordo easily winning in IRC on his first attempt is proof of that.

There is no denying Loeb has amazing offroad talent but the competition is simply not there.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Ataxia » 24 Jun 2012, 07:22

I used to watch WRC many moons ago...completely forgot it was still going.

Is it even on TV in the UK?
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 24 Jun 2012, 07:42

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I used to watch WRC many moons ago...completely forgot it was still going.

Is it even on TV in the UK?

Eurosport did coverage for Monte Carlo, then stopped. ITV were said to be on the verge of penning a new deal to bring it back to their male-oriented ITV4 channel, but they dropped out when the North One saga began. There was talk of them going ahead anyway earlier on this season when they resolved some of the initial difficulties, but talk of that has now also died out. ESPN did not renew at the end of last season after a sole year with the rights, Dave is not interesting in having it back, so it seems it isn't really welcome anyway.

Motors TV has it, but that's all. That says it all really, the only place you can watch the pinnacle of rallying is on a specialist motorsports channel. It isn't mainsteam anymore.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby mario » 24 Jun 2012, 08:34

kostas22 wrote:
dr-baker wrote:The only time I got genuinely interested and cared about the result is when Kris Meeke was in the Prodrive Mini... Didn't last long, did it? And there was a time when Mini had scored a podium in about 50% of its rallies, after Monte this year. Again, didn't last long, did it? Only thing going to get me caring much again is if Petter Solberg could genuinely challenge Loeb for the title...

Kris Meeke? Meh.

We need more Marcus Gronholms. Damn I miss that guy. He was the reason I watched WRC beyond 2006. Was heartbroken when he slid into that wall in Ireland, in 2007 I think it was? He was Loeb's only equal after the other greats had left the sport. Hirovnen and Latavala will never match him.

To be honest, anybody that wasn't Loeb and looked competitive was a welcome relief, even if that period of competitiveness was all too brief before BMW and Prodrive fell out. I have to agree that, as things stand, Hirvonen and Latvala are not likely to rival Loeb - Hirvonen won't be allowed to compete with Loeb whilst at Citroen, given how fiercely the team have imposed their team orders, whilst Latvala has been so accident prone that it is amazing that he has even managed to score any points at all. Added to that, Ford's management seem determined to constantly mismanage their resources - take Wilson's refusal to make Solberg the team leader, even when Latvala, after injured himself in training, was publicly calling for Ford to back Solberg. When Latvala announced that he was writing off his chances of this years WRC title, Wilson seemed to be utterly oblivious to that (saying that he "hadn't looked into things"), as if he was only now seemingly realising how far back Latvala was. As another example of their peculiar thinking, look at Solberg's tyre strategy in the New Zealand Rally - using hard tyres in the cold, wet conditions of the first day, then switching to fresh softs on the penultimate day (a move that has totally confused Citroen, because the weather forecast for tomorrow suggests that the conditions will be colder and wetter, just when a fresh set of soft tyres would really pay off) - they have been doing the very opposite of what would make sense at the time.

About the only real hope is that VW's full works team can be competitive right from the off in 2013 and offer Ogier a chance of taking the fight to Loeb directly - at least then we might have a chance of seeing some sense of competition. It may be too little, too late though - and somewhat ironically, although Loeb's domination has increasingly hurt the WRC's standing (much as Schumacher's period of domination in F1 lead to a noticeable drop in support for F1), at the same time Loeb is the only rally driver that might be vaguely recognisable with the wider public and help promote the sport.
kostas22 wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:I used to watch WRC many moons ago...completely forgot it was still going.

Is it even on TV in the UK?

Eurosport did coverage for Monte Carlo, then stopped. ITV were said to be on the verge of penning a new deal to bring it back to their male-oriented ITV4 channel, but they dropped out when the North One saga began. There was talk of them going ahead anyway earlier on this season when they resolved some of the initial difficulties, but talk of that has now also died out. ESPN did not renew at the end of last season after a sole year with the rights, Dave is not interesting in having it back, so it seems it isn't really welcome anyway.

Motors TV has it, but that's all. That says it all really, the only place you can watch the pinnacle of rallying is on a specialist motorsports channel. It isn't mainsteam anymore.

It has got to the point where the sport has lost almost all of its prestige - these days, the WRC has been hitting the headlines for the wrong reasons more often than not, with the collapse of North One and the farcical debacle over timing at the Monaco Rally, the lack of support from the FIA as the organisers are forced to make their own deals, leading directly to Nokia pulling the plug on its sponsorship (and taking its planned social media advertising campaign with it), event organisers in open dissent with the FIA and, earlier in the year, the angry exchanges between Prodrive and BMW over its Mini WRC project.
With those recent problems coming on top of the fact that the sport is simply no longer as media friendly as it was when there were multiple competitive teams, it is hard to see why any mainstream broadcaster would be attracted to the WRC - and, of course, the longer that the WRC goes without mainstream coverage, the lower the chances that it'll ever recover that same sort of wider attention and prestige it once had.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby DOSBoot » 24 Jun 2012, 08:49

We don't even get it here in the U.S. anymore. Every month or so, Speed would show a recap of each rally and there coverage was quite well done. I was whatching it regulary up until the end of 2005. Then Loeb sarted dominatine, the coverage was dropped on Speed, and I haven't seen much of it since then. It did come back on another channel called HDNet or something like that, but that was 3 years ago, and I haven't seen it pop up since. I'm not missing much, so I don't really care any more.

That's the problem with the WRC right now, it's just not interesting any more. The lack of coverage doesn't help one bit. Ten years ago, I thought WRC was better than most, if not, the best motorsport sanction on the planet. I'd never thought that a decade later, that I would be the one wanting to put a gun to it's head, and blow it's brains out. That's how bad I think the WRC has gotten itself into.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Wizzie » 24 Jun 2012, 17:58

I don't care if he ends up being the most useless driver in history, this guy deserves a works WRC drive. Right now.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby pasta_maldonado » 24 Jun 2012, 19:28

Wizzie wrote:I don't care if he ends up being the most useless driver in history, this guy deserves a works WRC drive. Right now.

Problem is, a works WRC drive doesn't mean anything now
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby eurobrun » 24 Jun 2012, 19:38

pasta_maldonado wrote:
Wizzie wrote:I don't care if he ends up being the most useless driver in history, this guy deserves a works WRC drive. Right now.

Problem is, a works WRC drive doesn't mean anything now


I think I could probably get a WRC drive if I was really rich.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby East Londoner » 30 Jun 2012, 02:02

The 1990s were better. Fact. And you bloody well know it.

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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby AndreaModa » 30 Jun 2012, 02:29

East Londoner wrote:More bad news for the WRC. :|


I don't know, it's not entirely bad news. I'd welcome any sort of new competition to the series, and if they have a line-up of Ogier and Latvala as well as a third car for one of their junior drivers, that could be very interesting indeed. At least we can rely on VW to do a better job than BMW have done with the Mini!

Question now is, if Latvala does indeed go to VW, who will Ford replace him with? Ostberg?
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 30 Jun 2012, 04:59

AndreaModa wrote:
East Londoner wrote:More bad news for the WRC. :|


I don't know, it's not entirely bad news. I'd welcome any sort of new competition to the series, and if they have a line-up of Ogier and Latvala as well as a third car for one of their junior drivers, that could be very interesting indeed. At least we can rely on VW to do a better job than BMW have done with the Mini!

Question now is, if Latvala does indeed go to VW, who will Ford replace him with? Ostberg?

Who says there will be a Ford to race for? I expect that Ford will have finally come to the end of their tether with M-Sport and Malcolm Wilson's incompetence, coupled with the zero credibility of the sport and pull the plug on their WRC programme. Latvala would do well to nail himself down to a VW contract while there is still a seat to be had.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby pasta_maldonado » 30 Jun 2012, 05:26

kostas22 wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:
East Londoner wrote:More bad news for the WRC. :|


I don't know, it's not entirely bad news. I'd welcome any sort of new competition to the series, and if they have a line-up of Ogier and Latvala as well as a third car for one of their junior drivers, that could be very interesting indeed. At least we can rely on VW to do a better job than BMW have done with the Mini!

Question now is, if Latvala does indeed go to VW, who will Ford replace him with? Ostberg?

Who says there will be a Ford to race for? I expect that Ford will have finally come to the end of their tether with M-Sport and Malcolm Wilson's incompetence, coupled with the zero credibility of the sport and pull the plug on their WRC programme. Latvala would do well to nail himself down to a VW contract while there is still a seat to be had.

Given a lack of credibility that the WRC now has, is a merger between it and the IRC on the cards?
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 30 Jun 2012, 05:29

pasta_maldonado wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:Question now is, if Latvala does indeed go to VW, who will Ford replace him with? Ostberg?

Who says there will be a Ford to race for? I expect that Ford will have finally come to the end of their tether with M-Sport and Malcolm Wilson's incompetence, coupled with the zero credibility of the sport and pull the plug on their WRC programme. Latvala would do well to nail himself down to a VW contract while there is still a seat to be had.

Given a lack of credibility that the WRC now has, is a merger between it and the IRC on the cards?

No. WRC is an FIA series, IRC is run by a commercial promoter. It's apples and oranges. They might rename WRC, they might scrap it in favour of a new series, but they will most certainly not merge.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby AndreaModa » 30 Jun 2012, 05:47

kostas22 wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:
East Londoner wrote:More bad news for the WRC. :|


I don't know, it's not entirely bad news. I'd welcome any sort of new competition to the series, and if they have a line-up of Ogier and Latvala as well as a third car for one of their junior drivers, that could be very interesting indeed. At least we can rely on VW to do a better job than BMW have done with the Mini!

Question now is, if Latvala does indeed go to VW, who will Ford replace him with? Ostberg?

Who says there will be a Ford to race for? I expect that Ford will have finally come to the end of their tether with M-Sport and Malcolm Wilson's incompetence, coupled with the zero credibility of the sport and pull the plug on their WRC programme. Latvala would do well to nail himself down to a VW contract while there is still a seat to be had.


I don't know, I reckon Ford probably still think it's worthwhile entering, after all the financial expense is nothing compared to say the WEC or an F1 program is it? Maybe they'll ditch M-Sport for another outfit to run the team because I don't think Solberg would have signed up for just 1 year would he?
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 30 Jun 2012, 06:16

AndreaModa wrote:
kostas22 wrote:Who says there will be a Ford to race for? I expect that Ford will have finally come to the end of their tether with M-Sport and Malcolm Wilson's incompetence, coupled with the zero credibility of the sport and pull the plug on their WRC programme. Latvala would do well to nail himself down to a VW contract while there is still a seat to be had.


I don't know, I reckon Ford probably still think it's worthwhile entering, after all the financial expense is nothing compared to say the WEC or an F1 program is it? Maybe they'll ditch M-Sport for another outfit to run the team because I don't think Solberg would have signed up for just 1 year would he?

Point One; considering how late they decide to commit to this year's programme I wouldn't be so sure about that statement. They left it extremely late to renew their contract with M-Sport. It's why Hirvonen left for Citroen. At least they could guarantee him a seat up front. Of course it's way cheaper than an F1 programme, but I'm not so sure about WEC. They have worked hard to reduce the cost of running cars in the WRC but this as devalued the entire sport as a result. It's about value for money, not raw cost. Would you pay $1 million for 50% of a really small pie or $5 million for 5% of an ENORMOUS pie? It's making the pie metaphor rather complex but I think you see my point.

Point Two; Yes he would. He said it the entire time. Ford or nothing. He had no other desirable options because Citroen was full, he couldn't sustain running his own team for yet another season, and he was not going to be going privateer elsewhere either. He was on the verge of quitting the sport. So coming back to Ford for just a year? Yes, definitely plausible.

I think Ford might go the way of Toyota circa 2001 and become semi-works. Back then they had three 'satellite' teams - Castrol Toyota Team Denmark, Finland and Saudi Arabia (for Henrik Lundgaard, Pasi Hagström and Abdullah Bakhashab). I expect any of the Ford drives with some money to contribute may end up in this scenario. Petter Solberg won't want to become a pay driver, and I don't believe Ott Tänak has any money. However, we could perhaps end up with two teams, one under the banner Expert Ford Norge with Henning Solberg (who definitely has money) and Mads Østberg (who has some money), and perhaps Ford Russia with Evgeny Novikov (he found money in the past before his sponsors abandoned him because of his crap campaign at Citroen Junior. However he has matured and become a better driver so perhaps he can find some more sponsors again), and again with M-Sport building the cars but only for customers.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby AndreaModa » 30 Jun 2012, 06:24

That's a good point, the reason I raised the WEC/F1 comparison was because of Ford's motorsport commitments as a whole. Apart from NASCAR, a bit of activity in ALMS, V8SC, and NHRA, all they have is the WRC. Now there is the possibility of them perhaps shifting their focus to another sport, in a similar vein to Toyota now with the WEC, but I can't see Ford going there, so maybe touring cars, or remain in the WRC? I can't see how such a huge global car manufacturer which has a massive history of participation in motorsports over the years, will effectively ditch their last remaining effort outside of the USA (excluding V8SC, but that's very specific to Australia), and loose all their presence. Granted with the WRC in the state its in, their presence their is limited, but the fact is people still talk about the series, it's still covered on websites and magazines, and some TV channels, so it's not a bad medium. I think they'll stick around personally, but I guess we'll have to wait and see for real. It'd be yet another blow to the WRC to loose another manufacturer.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 30 Jun 2012, 06:51

AndreaModa wrote:Granted with the WRC in the state its in, their presence their is limited, but the fact is people still talk about the series, it's still covered on websites and magazines, and some TV channels, so it's not a bad medium. I think they'll stick around personally, but I guess we'll have to wait and see for real. It'd be yet another blow to the WRC to loose another manufacturer.

This is news to me. Back when Gronholm was still at Ford me and my car-loving mates talked about it quite a lot. I don't think I've mentioned the WRC to anyone since about 2008 or 2009 now though, including to those same people. They just don't care anymore. Although it may have something to with one of them being from a extremely loyal Ford family :lol:
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 01 Jul 2012, 21:13

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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby eurobrun » 01 Jul 2012, 21:17

kostas22 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100846

Get well soon Marcus.


And that was the second bad crash of that event.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 01 Jul 2012, 21:55

eurobrun wrote:
kostas22 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100846

Get well soon Marcus.


And that was the second bad crash of that event.

Yeah, Toomas Heikkinen's crashed looked really bad as well, crashing into the landing ramp like that. Sounded painful.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Wizzie » 01 Jul 2012, 22:42

kostas22 wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
kostas22 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100846

Get well soon Marcus.


And that was the second bad crash of that event.

Yeah, Toomas Heikkinen's crashed looked really bad as well, crashing into the landing ramp like that. Sounded painful.


Gronholm's crash was almost as violent as the Heikkinen shunt. And Heikkinen's shunt was one of the most violent accidents I've seen in a long time :|
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby East Londoner » 13 Jul 2012, 02:00

Monaco is the first rally to confirm a date for next year. Whether there'll be a WRC next year remains to be seen...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101141
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 13 Jul 2012, 05:13

East Londoner wrote:Monaco is the first rally to confirm a date for next year. Whether there'll be a WRC next year remains to be seen...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101141

They should have stayed as an IRC round rather than switching back tbh.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby eurobrun » 13 Jul 2012, 09:17

WRC will be dead in 5 years. I wish for a return to early to mid 2000's levels of manufacturer involvement.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Klon » 13 Jul 2012, 09:46

eurobrun wrote:WRC will be dead in 5 years. I wish for a return to early to mid 2000's levels of manufacturer involvement.


Depending on manufacturer involvement is the biggest death spell a racing series can get - if anything, they should try to support private teams more while trying to find someone who can beat Loeb.
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Re: The World Rally Championship thread

Postby Stramala » 13 Jul 2012, 19:41

Klon wrote:
eurobrun wrote:WRC will be dead in 5 years. I wish for a return to early to mid 2000's levels of manufacturer involvement.


Depending on manufacturer involvement is the biggest death spell a racing series can get - if anything, they should try to support private teams more while trying to find someone who can beat Loeb.

Ogier can. But he was hung out to dry by Citroen and has to play the long game so he can get VW to himself.
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