dinizintheoven wrote:I've got one: "Reject Moments That Actually Never Happened, As Opposed To Those That Did And Which End With 'Oh, Wait!'" by the users of the F1 Rejects forum.
AndreaModa wrote:How about the double-width rear wing run by Ferrari on Gilles Villeneuve's car at Long Beach in 1982 I believe, which was in protest against the water-cooled brakes of the Williams, and other teams (possibly Brabham and others?) were using at the first race in Brazil. Obviously the water cooled brakes were a complete joke, the water kept the cars above the minimum weight in scrutineering, but then it was drained for the races, allowing the cars to run lighter. Ferrari protested this by running the double width rear wing at the next race at Long Beach and they, along with the other teams for using water cooled brakes were all disqualified from those first couple of races!
I think I've got all that right, might be a bit inaccurate and mixed up though! It's 3 am!
ibsey wrote:Brabham Fan Car in 1976
ibsey wrote:Lotus 88 car (1982 I believe)
GroupLotusRenault wrote:Apprantly Williams had the seemless gearboxes in 1994 at the begining but the FIA banned it straight away.
GroupLotusRenault wrote:Driver aids of 1991-1993, Williams were in a leauge of their own both titles 1992-1993. 20 wins in 2 years. Active Suspension, ABS Braking, Traction Control, Automatic gearboxes & Launch Control.
madmark1974 wrote:Also, I remember a few races where the winner went on to be DSQd - didn't Elio de Angelis inherit a win that way?
ibsey wrote:Tyrell lead balast affair in 1984
Faustus wrote:I'm sorry I keep posting, but this is one of my favourite things in motorsport.
Faustus wrote:I'm sorry I keep posting, but this is one of my favourite things in motorsport.
Faustus wrote:Wasn't Larrousse disqualified one year for entering their car as a Larrousse rather than a Lola? The chassis plate said it was a Lola but Larrousse had entered the car as a Larrousse, so there was some controversy about not owning the IP and not having built the cars.
Same goes for Andrea Moda and Coloni in 1992.
The EuroBrun ER189 was disqualified at its first race for not having the minimum roll-over clearance.
Faustus wrote:GroupLotusRenault wrote:Driver aids of 1991-1993, Williams were in a leauge of their own both titles 1992-1993. 20 wins in 2 years. Active Suspension, ABS Braking, Traction Control, Automatic gearboxes & Launch Control.
Benetton had all of the above and four-wheel steer as well. That was the Benetton B193B, the so-called 'talking dog' car, according to Pat Symmonds. I remember seeing this car in testing in Estoril and being quite dumbfounded by the engineers testing the four-wheel steering system in the pits with the car jacked-up. Absolutely unbelievable.
ibsey wrote:Senna using spare car after the restart, Brazil 1988
ibsey wrote:Now I seem to have caught the 'unable to resist posting bug' from you Faustus.
One of the untold stories from 1982 was how Derek Daly managed to out qualify Keke Rosberg at the French GP at Dijon (a race Keke won).
midgrid wrote:ibsey wrote:Senna using spare car after the restart, Brazil 1988
Perhaps Faustus can give us an insider's perspective on Enrique Bernoldi's disqualification for the same offence at the 2002 Australian Grand Prix (and Heinz-Harald Frentzen's DQ for leaving the pit-lane when the red light was illuminated).
Faustus wrote:midgrid wrote:ibsey wrote:Senna using spare car after the restart, Brazil 1988
Perhaps Faustus can give us an insider's perspective on Enrique Bernoldi's disqualification for the same offence at the 2002 Australian Grand Prix (and Heinz-Harald Frentzen's DQ for leaving the pit-lane when the red light was illuminated).
Unfortunately I only know as much as you. I didn't join Arrows until the 22nd of April, the monday before the Spanish Grand Prix.
ibsey wrote:Was their any substance in Mclaren fuel iregularities allegations in Italy 1976? Or was it simply a case of the Italian authorities wishing to send Ferrari's main rivals to the back of the grid?
Also how about Mclaren's disqualification in Spain 1976, because their rear wing was deemed to be too wide. Was this simply an innocent mistake by the team, or were there any (more damming) allegations made against them?
midgrid wrote:ibsey wrote:Was their any substance in Mclaren fuel iregularities allegations in Italy 1976? Or was it simply a case of the Italian authorities wishing to send Ferrari's main rivals to the back of the grid?
The highest octane rating permitted at the time was 101. Various samples of fuel were collected by the race organisers on Saturday morning and analysed by SNAM, the national oil company. This produced the following results:
- Ferrari 98.6
- Ligier 98.6
- Lotus 99.7
- Tyrrell 100.7
- McLaren 101.6
- Penske 105.7
James Hunt, Jochen Mass and John Watson all had their Saturday times disallowed, and as Friday's times were set in wet conditions, none qualified. However, the three slowest qualifiers (Otto Stuppacher, Arturo Merzario and Guy Edwards) all withdrew for various reasons, allowing the penalised drivers to start.
All well and good, but two weeks after the race, the CSI announced that its own prescribed methods for analysing fuel samples were inadequate and exonerated the fuel supplier, Texaco, from all responsibility.
ibsey wrote:Nor the Renualt Mass Damper thing in 2006.
midgrid wrote:Faustus wrote:midgrid wrote:Perhaps Faustus can give us an insider's perspective on Enrique Bernoldi's disqualification for the same offence at the 2002 Australian Grand Prix (and Heinz-Harald Frentzen's DQ for leaving the pit-lane when the red light was illuminated).
Unfortunately I only know as much as you. I didn't join Arrows until the 22nd of April, the monday before the Spanish Grand Prix.
Oh well, at least you can claim responsibility for the points finishes then.
Faustus wrote:I had absolutely nothing to do with Frentzen's 6th place in Spain, because I had just started and was still trying to figure out who everyone was and trying to not get in the way. I would like to think that I contributed to the team effort in achieving the 6th place in Monaco.
Klon wrote:Faustus wrote:I had absolutely nothing to do with Frentzen's 6th place in Spain, because I had just started and was still trying to figure out who everyone was and trying to not get in the way. I would like to think that I contributed to the team effort in achieving the 6th place in Monaco.
Did you actually work with Frentzen sometimes? If yes, how was he?
Faustus wrote:This made me think of another one that wasn't strictly speaking contravening any regulations. In early 2007, the spring mounted on the floor that everyone was allowed to use (and did) but that Ferrari was being clever and using it to move the central section of the floor closer to the ground. The FIA changed the load test on the floor and doubled the load, prompting everyone to reinforce their floors and eliminate this clever system.
Faustus wrote:Klon wrote:Faustus wrote:I had absolutely nothing to do with Frentzen's 6th place in Spain, because I had just started and was still trying to figure out who everyone was and trying to not get in the way. I would like to think that I contributed to the team effort in achieving the 6th place in Monaco.
Did you actually work with Frentzen sometimes? If yes, how was he?
I was assistant race engineer to Graham Taylor, who engineered Frentzen's car. Graham was also chief race engineer so he was a very busy man, dealing with the race strategy as well and other stuff, so I got to handle the race engineering on my own a couple of times. HHF was a really good guy, very sensitive to minute changes in the car set-up, with superb racecraft and excellent at reading race conditions. In Silverstone, when it was still raining a little but a dry line was appearing, he made the decision to change to slicks and he called it perfectly. Also, I learned from him the value of low-speed downforce in Monaco. I didn't appreciate just how much of a difference a few kilograms of extra front downforce can have on the car's handling.
Faustus wrote:ibsey wrote:Nor the Renualt Mass Damper thing in 2006.
This was perfectly legal and was just a very clever idea. Other teams, particularly Ferrari, were unhappy about it because they would have to completely redesign their front suspension to incorporate a similar system.
This made me think of another one that wasn't strictly speaking contravening any regulations. In early 2007, the spring mounted on the floor that everyone was allowed to use (and did) but that Ferrari was being clever and using it to move the central section of the floor closer to the ground. The FIA changed the load test on the floor and doubled the load, prompting everyone to reinforce their floors and eliminate this clever system.
mario wrote:I have to say, I really am surprised, and glad, to see how quickly this thread has expanded - especially with some of the more amusing or technically interesting examples of rule bending.
ibsey wrote:Great insight & I vividly remember HHF slowing down on the Hanger Straight after his superb performance at Sliverstone in 2002. I was gutted for him & the team, so I can't begin to imagine what you must have been going through.
Incidentially I ask this question on the Williams thread but maybe you didn't see it. In your opinion, how much untapped potenial was left within the 2002 Arrows car? IIRC Arrows had a pretty sorted car, but couldn't develop it as much as they wanted because they didn't have the resources / finance to do any testing with it.
Just remembered that because of Senna's pole positions, people were questioning whether the 1986 Lotus was legal or not. Although I can't remember what they were specifically being acused of? (perhaps someone else can remember).
All I remember is that in Mexico 1986, Lotus put out a press statement basically saying; 'we are sick of all the allegations of cheating we have had, if other teams think we are cheating then stop acusing us & prove it'.
ibsey wrote:I am surprised just how many examples there are. Indeed it makes you wonder just how many more might have gone undetected?
Faustus wrote:ibsey wrote:I am surprised just how many examples there are. Indeed it makes you wonder just how many more might have gone undetected?
I think it's damn near impossible to conceive just how many illegalities have gone unnoticed. I remember talking at great length at the 2007 FIA GT race at Silverstone to a mate who is a suspension design engineer at Force India (he was with them back then, or rather Spyker) and he was 100% convinced that every car on the grid was, to a lesser or greater extent, illegal to the letter of the regulations. Including Spyker.
ibsey wrote:Just remembered that because of Senna's pole positions, people were questioning whether the 1986 Lotus was legal or not. Although I can't remember what they were specifically being acused of? (perhaps someone else can remember).
All I remember is that in Mexico 1986, Lotus put out a press statement basically saying; 'we are sick of all the allegations of cheating we have had, if other teams think we are cheating then stop acusing us & prove it'.
In reaction to this Williams put out a very funny press release jokely saying something along the lines of ' we do not think the Lotus car is illegal & we do not wish to protest it.'
mario wrote:I have to say, I really am surprised, and glad, to see how quickly this thread has expanded - especially with some of the more amusing or technically interesting examples of rule bending.
It's a great thread, so thank you for starting it Mario. I am surprised just how many examples there are. Indeed it makes you wonder just how many more might have gone undetected?
Return to The Eric van de Poele Memorial Forum
Users browsing this forum: pi314159 and 2 guests