What If?

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Re: What If?

Postby Klon » 15 Jun 2011, 01:46

ibsey wrote:I've got another one...what if Martin Brundle got the Williams drive in 1993?

Could Brundle (at the peak of his career) beaten an aging Prost for the title?


No. But at least, he would be a race winner - Prost would be winning his last title even sooner?


Now here are some for your entertainment, if they had already been asked, I am sorry:

- What if Bourdais hadn't stalled in Monza in 2008?

- What if Karthikeyan rather than Nakajima would have taken over Wurz's cockpit in Brazil 2007?

- What if Ralf Schumacher had trumped everyone in the Force India test back in late 2007 and have gotten the cockpit?

- What if the 2008 entry was given to a team that is not full of fools (i.e. not Prodrive)?

- What if Lauda would have needed some more money for his airline and would have taken a spot at Ferrari after Prost left in late 1991?
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Re: What If?

Postby midgrid » 15 Jun 2011, 01:47

FMecha wrote:Lotus merged with another team in 1995?


It failed to survive into 1996.
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Re: What If?

Postby FullMetalJack » 15 Jun 2011, 02:12

What if Larrousse had survived into 1995?

What if Leyton House had finished 1-2 at the 1990 French Grand Prix?
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Re: What If?

Postby FMecha » 15 Jun 2011, 02:21

midgrid wrote:
FMecha wrote:Lotus merged with another team in 1995?


It failed to survive into 1996.


True, that's happening when Lotus merged with Pacific in '95, but the question is: which team to merge if it's not Pacific?

redbulljack14 wrote:What if Leyton House had finished 1-2 at the 1990 French Grand Prix?


France 1990 IIDOTR. Nothing else. (Capelli's already France 1990 IIDOTR, IMO)
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Re: What If?

Postby midgrid » 15 Jun 2011, 02:29

FMecha wrote:
midgrid wrote:
FMecha wrote:Lotus merged with another team in 1995?


It failed to survive into 1996.


True, that's happening when Lotus merged with Pacific in '95, but the question is: which team to merge if it's not Pacific?


Hmm, Team Lotus still had a contract with Mika Salo for 1995 and the case for his services between Pacific and Tyrrell went to the Contract Recognition Board. Perhaps Lotus and Tyrrell could have formed an alliance if Ken had signed Salo before the agreement between Lotus and Pacific, although the fact that Tyrrell was nearly as historic and prestigious as Lotus (and thus had its own well-established identity, unlike the second-year Pacific team) makes me doubt that such a deal could have taken place.
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Re: What If?

Postby midgrid » 15 Jun 2011, 02:40

redbulljack14 wrote:What if Larrousse had survived into 1995?


The team would have had to use an uprated LH94 design for the flyaway races, and would have had a hard time beating even the Fortis and unprepared Simteks. Even if an LH95 had been produced for the European season, it would likely have been struggling to break into the top twenty due to the restricted budget (the team was dependent on French government support in its final years due to the ban on tobacco and alcohol advertising which had recently been introduced), and the fact that both drivers probably would have been rookies (Emmanuel Collard, Elton Julian, Eric Hélary and Christophe Bouchut were all in contention for the drives in the off-season, along with current and past Larrousse drivers, Érik Comas and Éric Bernard). On the plus side, there might have been a couple of new profiles on this site.

At the same time, the DAMS team was seriously investigating a foray into F1 and even built its own car, the GD-01, to evaluate whether or not this was possible. Jean-Paul Driot, the team principal of DAMS, negotiated a possible tie-up between DAMS and Larrousse with Gérard Larrousse in the winter of 1994-1995, but nothing came of it, so a related question would be: what if DAMS and Larrousse had joined forces in 1995? Or, what if DAMS had entered the championship in 1995 or 1996 with the GD-01?

What if Leyton House had finished 1-2 at the 1990 French Grand Prix?


I think it may have been possible for the team to gain additional sponsorship which would have enabled it to survive for more than one season after Leyton House (the Japanese parent company) went bust. It's a shame that Adrian Newey had already been fired by that point, otherwise he might have stayed on.
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Re: What If?

Postby IdeFan » 15 Jun 2011, 02:44

- What if Bourdais hadn't stalled in Monza in 2008?
He would have finished 7th, ahead of Hamilton but behind Massa, ultimately denying Hamilton the single point he needed to clinch the title.

- What if Karthikeyan rather than Nakajima would have taken over Wurz's cockpit in Brazil 2007?
Toyota would have withdrawn their engines after Williams refused to run their driver (echoes of 1987/8), Mercedes Benz would have stepped in to bail out the engine-less Williams. After a decent 2008 Williams shock everyone with their double diffuser and powerful engines to win four of the first five races of 2009, but are ultimately overhauled by Red Bull. Williams become the Mercedes works team in 2010 and with full manufacturer backing are competitive. Rosberg is able to snatch the WDC from the squabbling Red Bull drivers but RBR still take the constructors.

With Mercedes already supplying the maximum number of engines possible, there was no one to bail out Honda/Brawn and the team faded away. Williams fire Karthikeyan after a lacklustre 2008 and replace him with Button, who wins several races in '09 and '10 but can't quite match the better established Rosberg. Barrichello retires after being unable to find a seat for 2009.

With no Brawn for suspension to fall off in Hungary, Massa is not injured and Michael Schumacher never considers a comeback. Badoer never gets his chance and Massa continues to outperform Raikkonen to secure his seat alongside Alonso for 2010.

- What if Ralf Schumacher had trumped everyone in the Force India test back in late 2007 and have gotten the cockpit?
Fisichella retires after Force India opt for Ralf. Ralf is fired after a rubbish 2008 and replaced with Liuzzi. There is no glorious pole position or podium at Spa, but the team still make good progress with the McLaren partnership, and their best result of 2009 is Sutil's 4th at Monza, Luizzi escapes reject status in 2009 but is still fired after a poor 2010.

The British public are spared the colossal level of Eddie Jordan smugness at Spa 2009.

- What if the 2008 entry was given to a team that is not full of fools (i.e. not Prodrive)?
Joining at the end of a long period of relative rules stability, the new team would have been embarrassingly slow in 2008, and would fold at the end of the year. The 107% rule would have been brought back for 2009 and Hispania would have failed to qualify for the first few races of 2010, going bust before starting a grand prix.

Prodrive would have got a 2010 spot ahead of USF1, doing a decent job, beating Virgin but losing out to Lotus. (I think you're a little harsh on calling Prodrive fools, their entire bid was based on buying chassis and engines from McLaren, so when the FIA did a U-Turn on customer chassis they were left up shite creek without a paddle.)

- What if Lauda would have needed some more money for his airline and would have taken a spot at Ferrari after Prost left in late 1991?
Nicola Larini would have had a profile on this website. Lauda wouldn't accomplish much in 1992 and would retire at the end of the year, to be replaced by Berger for 1993.
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Re: What If?

Postby Faustus » 15 Jun 2011, 04:13

FMecha wrote:What if...

No mismanagement in Arrows occured, allowing the team team to survive in 2002 and securing team future?


Tom wouldn't have been a greedy bastard and would have sold the team to Red Bull like he had agreed, Morgan Grenfell (the venture capitalist comapny that owned a large percentage of the team) would have been paid off and Red Bull would have invested stupid amounts of money into the team.
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Re: What If?

Postby dr-baker » 15 Jun 2011, 04:57

What if... the unfortunate marshall in the Canadian GP had accidently been collected by an F1 car?

Image

(For one thing, I suppose, it would not have been regarded as one of the greatest GPs of all time...)
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Re: What If?

Postby mario » 15 Jun 2011, 05:58

IdeFan wrote:- What if Bourdais hadn't stalled in Monza in 2008?
He would have finished 7th, ahead of Hamilton but behind Massa, ultimately denying Hamilton the single point he needed to clinch the title.

Toro Rosso reckoned, based on the sort of lap times that Bourdais was able to produce when running at the back, that Bourdais probably could have finished in 2nd place - don't forget that Bourdais set the second fastest lap of the race (1.3s faster than Vettel). Overall, had Bourdais not stalled, then it is probably more likely that he would have finished ahead of, not behind, Massa, and could well have given Toro Rosso a 1-2 finish in that race.

IdeFan wrote:- What if the 2008 entry was given to a team that is not full of fools (i.e. not Prodrive)?
Joining at the end of a long period of relative rules stability, the new team would have been embarrassingly slow in 2008, and would fold at the end of the year. The 107% rule would have been brought back for 2009 and Hispania would have failed to qualify for the first few races of 2010, going bust before starting a grand prix.

Prodrive would have got a 2010 spot ahead of USF1, doing a decent job, beating Virgin but losing out to Lotus. (I think you're a little harsh on calling Prodrive fools, their entire bid was based on buying chassis and engines from McLaren, so when the FIA did a U-Turn on customer chassis they were left up shite creek without a paddle.)

I agree that it's harsh calling Prodrive's bid foolish - the FIA had allowed Honda to sell their 2006 car to Super Aguri, and Red Bull was effectively giving Toro Rosso the same car as their works outfit (albeit with a few modifications to the car, because of the difference in drivetrans). So, at the time they made their bid in 2007, with the FIA's ruling from 2006 still allowing customer cars for 2008, and with no signs that the FIA would change their minds, Prodrive could be forgiven for assuming that they would be OK.

Remember, it wasn't until October that Williams, having previously made formal complaints against Toro Rosso and Super Aguri, began proceedings against Prodrive - even so, as late as early November, just before Prodrive pulled the plug, the FIA still had made no move against customer cars.
In some ways, it was a slightly dirty trick by Williams - they ensured that Prodrive would not be able to sort out the arguments before the start of the season, so David Richards would have to withdraw his entry. There would be no way he could prepare an independent design in the time available, and he could not afford to take the financial risk of going ahead with a customer car in case they were banned at the last minute.
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Re: What If?

Postby Phoenix » 15 Jun 2011, 09:53

dr-baker wrote:What if... the unfortunate marshall in the Canadian GP had accidently been collected by an F1 car?

Image

(For one thing, I suppose, it would not have been regarded as one of the greatest GPs of all time...)


Improved marshalling training, I guess.
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Re: What If?

Postby FMecha » 15 Jun 2011, 21:43

Faustus wrote:
FMecha wrote:What if...

No mismanagement in Arrows occured, allowing the team team to survive in 2002 and securing team future?


Tom wouldn't have been a greedy bastard and would have sold the team to Red Bull like he had agreed, Morgan Grenfell (the venture capitalist company that owned a large percentage of the team) would have been paid off and Red Bull would have invested stupid amounts of money into the team.


And Red Bull will never buy Jaguar when they announcing to pull plug from F1, so Toro Rosso will never exist :P
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Re: What If?

Postby Klon » 15 Jun 2011, 22:14

mario wrote:Remember, it wasn't until October that Williams, having previously made formal complaints against Toro Rosso and Super Aguri, began proceedings against Prodrive - even so, as late as early November, just before Prodrive pulled the plug, the FIA still had made no move against customer cars.
In some ways, it was a slightly dirty trick by Williams - they ensured that Prodrive would not be able to sort out the arguments before the start of the season, so David Richards would have to withdraw his entry. There would be no way he could prepare an independent design in the time available, and he could not afford to take the financial risk of going ahead with a customer car in case they were banned at the last minute.


Well, at the very latest when Prodrive saw Williams' protest against SAF1 and Toro Rosso - who were filed at the very beginning of the 2007 season, if my memory serves me right - they could and should have realized Williams would file a protest against their approach as well some time. And what do you do if you have to fear something like that happen? Obviously you try to prepare an alternative solution in case that happens. I mean, that shouldn't take a genius to figure it out. I mean, I figured that out and I am a bloody moron. And no, hindsight doesn't apply here, that is basic economy and logic.
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Re: What If?

Postby Faustus » 15 Jun 2011, 22:33

Klon wrote:
mario wrote:Remember, it wasn't until October that Williams, having previously made formal complaints against Toro Rosso and Super Aguri, began proceedings against Prodrive - even so, as late as early November, just before Prodrive pulled the plug, the FIA still had made no move against customer cars.
In some ways, it was a slightly dirty trick by Williams - they ensured that Prodrive would not be able to sort out the arguments before the start of the season, so David Richards would have to withdraw his entry. There would be no way he could prepare an independent design in the time available, and he could not afford to take the financial risk of going ahead with a customer car in case they were banned at the last minute.


Well, at the very latest when Prodrive saw Williams' protest against SAF1 and Toro Rosso - who were filed at the very beginning of the 2007 season, if my memory serves me right - they could and should have realized Williams would file a protest against their approach as well some time. And what do you do if you have to fear something like that happen? Obviously you try to prepare an alternative solution in case that happens. I mean, that shouldn't take a genius to figure it out. I mean, I figured that out and I am a bloody moron. And no, hindsight doesn't apply here, that is basic economy and logic.


I absolutely agree. Prodrive handled the situation in a pathetic way. The problems could have been overcome, as they were ultimately down to money. Prodrive had plenty of time since they were announced as the 12th team to plan their entry and should have negotiated with the FIA and the teams to overcome any problems or queries. This was ultimately all about money, as most things in Formula 1 are. They were never even in consideration for the new teams' slots in 2010 because of the mess they made of the 2008 entry and if the 13th team does happen, I sincerely doubt that the FIA will even read the proposal. Prodrive managed to piss off everyone concerned and David Richards is now considered even more of a prat.
I heard that Prodrive's original backer pulled out of the deal so they were unlikely to make it anyway, so they didn't kick up too much of a fuss.
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Re: What If?

Postby DanielPT » 16 Jun 2011, 00:51

Faustus wrote:
Klon wrote:
mario wrote:Remember, it wasn't until October that Williams, having previously made formal complaints against Toro Rosso and Super Aguri, began proceedings against Prodrive - even so, as late as early November, just before Prodrive pulled the plug, the FIA still had made no move against customer cars.
In some ways, it was a slightly dirty trick by Williams - they ensured that Prodrive would not be able to sort out the arguments before the start of the season, so David Richards would have to withdraw his entry. There would be no way he could prepare an independent design in the time available, and he could not afford to take the financial risk of going ahead with a customer car in case they were banned at the last minute.


Well, at the very latest when Prodrive saw Williams' protest against SAF1 and Toro Rosso - who were filed at the very beginning of the 2007 season, if my memory serves me right - they could and should have realized Williams would file a protest against their approach as well some time. And what do you do if you have to fear something like that happen? Obviously you try to prepare an alternative solution in case that happens. I mean, that shouldn't take a genius to figure it out. I mean, I figured that out and I am a bloody moron. And no, hindsight doesn't apply here, that is basic economy and logic.


I absolutely agree. Prodrive handled the situation in a pathetic way. The problems could have been overcome, as they were ultimately down to money. Prodrive had plenty of time since they were announced as the 12th team to plan their entry and should have negotiated with the FIA and the teams to overcome any problems or queries. This was ultimately all about money, as most things in Formula 1 are. They were never even in consideration for the new teams' slots in 2010 because of the mess they made of the 2008 entry and if the 13th team does happen, I sincerely doubt that the FIA will even read the proposal. Prodrive managed to piss off everyone concerned and David Richards is now considered even more of a prat.
I heard that Prodrive's original backer pulled out of the deal so they were unlikely to make it anyway, so they didn't kick up too much of a fuss.


I think Williams had every right to protect its investments and its position in F1. Prodrive, with the McLaren agreement would be instantly competitive, major cockup aside. Thing is, with everyone knowing FIA very well it was a distinct possibility they would make a mess of the procedure and Prodrive should've really prevented that. Anyway and if I remember well, Richards said that racing in F1 would only make sense with one of those agreements, that it should be the future of F1, so they weren't really open to massive investments in infrastructures. This constraint, together with that from money and that indecision from FIA, meant Prodrive lost time to make their entry happen. Even with this, I remember that their entry was possible the year after and only after costumer cars were outlawed they gave up mentioning that it was not worth it, losing their entry fee. I agree with Faustus in that this probably made them lose the tendering process in 2010 for less experienced outfits coupled with their unwillingness in using Cosworth engines (some other losing teams mentioned that this turned out to be a handicap).
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Re: What If?

Postby Phoenix » 17 Jun 2011, 08:35

Here's an interesting one...What if Williams had accepted to sign Satoru Nakajima for 1988, thus keeping their Honda engine supply?
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Re: What If?

Postby Aerond » 17 Jun 2011, 10:31

Phoenix wrote:Here's an interesting one...What if Williams had accepted to sign Satoru Nakajima for 1988, thus keeping their Honda engine supply?


mansell would have probably won a race or two, but they wouldn't have any options for the championship. Benetton would have got the Renault deal instead and Benetton would become a major force before, with Williams dominating in 92 thanks to gadgets and honda v12s. Then... Who knows?
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Re: What If?

Postby Phoenix » 17 Jun 2011, 10:43

Aerond wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Here's an interesting one...What if Williams had accepted to sign Satoru Nakajima for 1988, thus keeping their Honda engine supply?


mansell would have probably won a race or two, but they wouldn't have any options for the championship. Benetton would have got the Renault deal instead and Benetton would become a major force before, with Williams dominating in 92 thanks to gadgets and honda v12s. Then... Who knows?


I think the major point of contention here is...what about McLaren? Would they press Porsche into further developing their engine? And Nakajima? Would have he become the only Japanese driver to win a GP?

I believe Williams could have taken 1988 by storm and be on the fight until 1992. After then...
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Re: What If?

Postby AdrianSutil » 17 Jun 2011, 13:54

Some of these mightve already been done so apologies in advance.

What if Phoenix's planned entrance in 2002 went ahead and how would they have done?

What if Ayrton Senna didn't die? Would he have won any more titles?

What if forti didn't fold after Germany in 1996? Just as the car started to get competitive?

What if simtek didn't fold either?
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Re: What If?

Postby FMecha » 17 Jun 2011, 16:09

AdrianSutil wrote:Some of these mightve already been done so apologies in advance.


Most of these were already done. Anyways... :)

AdrianSutil wrote:What if Phoenix's planned entrance in 2002 went ahead and how would they have done?


Only managed 2 points. Merged with Arrows when they bankrupt, but didn't make more points. Bankruptcy. Got profiled here.

AdrianSutil wrote:What if Ayrton Senna didn't die? Would he have won any more titles?


That's interesting one: Senna managed only 3rd place at WDC 1994, behind Schumacher and Hill, with he managing some victories that year. Senna then decided going to Ferrari in 1995, replacing Alesi. With frequent 4th position within 1995, Senna continued into 1996, but left after some races due to fiery relationship with Schumacher (allowing Irvine to come). Unable to find a suitable team, Prost offered a test drive role for Senna, but he rejected and retired from sport. He tried team managership by buying the dying Arrows in within fall of Arrows, naming it Senna Arrows Racing but sold the team after 2005. He now writes motorsport articles for Brazilian motorsport magazines.

AdrianSutil wrote:What if Forti didn't fold after Germany in 1996? Just as the car started to get competitive?


Badoer got replaced by some paydrivers. Bankruptcy for 1997.

AdrianSutil wrote:What if Simtek didn't fold either?


Hideki Noda finds new sponsorship immediately and some paydrivers would come. Bankruptcy for 1996.

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Re: What If?

Postby Wizzie » 17 Jun 2011, 16:13

AdrianSutil wrote:What if Phoenix's planned entrance in 2002 went ahead and how would they have done?


Sod all. When you're running the previous year's Prost with (presumably) Asiatech engines with Gaston Mazzacane as one of your drivers you're doomed for rejectdom from the start
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Re: What If?

Postby Ferrarist » 17 Jun 2011, 20:35

redbulljack14 wrote:What if Larrousse had survived into 1995?


Larousse would constantly bicker around the end of the pack, duking it out with Simtek, while easily beating Forti and Pacific. Then they would have probably been sold to DAMS in '96, because Larousse was notoriously cash-strapped during this time period.
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Re: What If?

Postby WeirdKerr » 18 Jun 2011, 07:54

AdrianSutil wrote:What if Ayrton Senna didn't die? Would he have won any more titles?


That's interesting one: Senna managed only 3rd place at WDC 1994, behind Schumacher and Hill, with he managing some victories that year. Senna then decided going to Ferrari in 1995, replacing Alesi. With frequent 4th position within 1995, Senna continued into 1996, but left after some races due to fiery relationship with Schumacher (allowing Irvine to come). Unable to find a suitable team, Prost offered a test drive role for Senna, but he rejected and retired from sport. He tried team managership by buying the dying Arrows in within fall of Arrows, naming it Senna Arrows Racing but sold the team after 2005. He now manages his nephew, currently standing in for the injured Robert Kubica...

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Re: What If?

Postby FullMetalJack » 18 Jun 2011, 20:45

Ferrarist wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:What if Larrousse had survived into 1995?


Larousse would constantly bicker around the end of the pack, duking it out with Simtek, while easily beating Forti and Pacific. Then they would have probably been sold to DAMS in '96, because Larousse was notoriously cash-strapped during this time period.


I'd have seen them battling with Simtek, Minardi and Footwork's Inoue, possibly Tyrrell's Katayama as well.
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Re: What If?

Postby FullMetalJack » 20 Jun 2011, 06:23

What if Marco Apicella, Bernd Schneider and Franck Lagorce were given proper chances.
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Re: What If?

Postby AdrianSutil » 20 Jun 2011, 13:52

Apicella: Given another shot in the next race for Jordan, finishing down the order but not embarassing himself. Resumes testing duties with Jordan and picks up second Simtek seat for 1994, alongside Brabham. Completes the year, finishing 10 races, a best of 8th at Monza. Leaves Simtek at end of year for Sportscar racing.

Schneider: After dreadful year with Zakspeed, leaves F1 altogether for DTM.

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Re: What If?

Postby dr-baker » 21 Jun 2011, 01:20

AdrianSutil wrote:Apicella: Given another shot in the next race for Jordan, finishing down the order but not embarassing himself. Resumes testing duties with Jordan and picks up second Simtek seat for 1994, alongside Brabham. Completes the year, finishing 10 races, a best of 8th at Monza. Leaves Simtek at end of year for Sportscar racing.

So what would have happened to Roland Ratzenberger? I assume Senna would have still had his accident in light of the startline crash and safety car, and thus had all the safety introduced into F1, etc.
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Re: What If?

Postby Phoenix » 21 Jun 2011, 07:26

Roland would have continued racing sportscars anywhere he was called up to, earning some fame and fortune along the way...Who knows if he could have been really competitive? Maybe he'd even continue racing today.
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Re: What If?

Postby DOSBoot » 21 Jun 2011, 07:45

What if Nigel Mansell didn't go to Williams in 1991?
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Re: What If?

Postby Phoenix » 21 Jun 2011, 07:54

DOSBoot wrote:What if Nigel Mansell didn't go to Williams in 1991?


He'd have retired and never won that WDC in 1992. Here's the interesting part - maybe Senna could have snuck into Williams by then, storming to the 1992 and 1993 championships. Prost would have never driven for Williams with Senna already there (no chance to exert any vetoes by him) and rather than do stuff all for McLaren he'd have retired for good. As for 1994, I can't predict whether if he'd have been killed or not.
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Re: What If?

Postby This » 21 Jun 2011, 08:07

Phoenix wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:What if Nigel Mansell didn't go to Williams in 1991?


He'd have retired and never won that WDC in 1992. Here's the interesting part - maybe Senna could have snuck into Williams by then, storming to the 1992 and 1993 championships. Prost would have never driven for Williams with Senna already there (no chance to exert any vetoes by him) and rather than do stuff all for McLaren he'd have retired for good. As for 1994, I can't predict whether if he'd have been killed or not.

Prost then went back to mclaren for a few seasons, but quit when Honda quit. Nige then made Return only to be outperformed by michael undretti (who didn't perform great either) and be replaced by Hakkinen. Mclaren kept Andretti for one season, but was already preparing Verstappen for his debut in 1995, which happened.
Meanwhile at ferrari, berger would stay, until Ferrari Signs Senna for 1996 Meanwhile, Alesi would drive for Williams from 1993 on to replace Patrese. Badoer would then went straight to Ferrari, having many luck, which gave him a fighting chance against teammate Senna. Damon Hill would probably end up at Jordan after Boutsen retired and Coulthard wouldn't be heared of, instead would become a succesful BTCC driver.
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Re: What If?

Postby AdrianSutil » 21 Jun 2011, 08:46

dr-baker wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Apicella: Given another shot in the next race for Jordan, finishing down the order but not embarassing himself. Resumes testing duties with Jordan and picks up second Simtek seat for 1994, alongside Brabham. Completes the year, finishing 10 races, a best of 8th at Monza. Leaves Simtek at end of year for Sportscar racing.

So what would have happened to Roland Ratzenberger? I assume Senna would have still had his accident in light of the startline crash and safety car, and thus had all the safety introduced into F1, etc.


yep. I'm afraid Everything to do with Imola 1994 would still happen, just no Roland. Roland would remain in Motorsport but never F1, as he was never in line for an F1 drive with any other team
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Re: What If?

Postby Phoenix » 21 Jun 2011, 09:08

This wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:What if Nigel Mansell didn't go to Williams in 1991?


He'd have retired and never won that WDC in 1992. Here's the interesting part - maybe Senna could have snuck into Williams by then, storming to the 1992 and 1993 championships. Prost would have never driven for Williams with Senna already there (no chance to exert any vetoes by him) and rather than do stuff all for McLaren he'd have retired for good. As for 1994, I can't predict whether if he'd have been killed or not.

Prost then went back to mclaren for a few seasons, but quit when Honda quit. Nige then made Return only to be outperformed by michael undretti (who didn't perform great either) and be replaced by Hakkinen. Mclaren kept Andretti for one season, but was already preparing Verstappen for his debut in 1995, which happened.
Meanwhile at ferrari, berger would stay, until Ferrari Signs Senna for 1996 Meanwhile, Alesi would drive for Williams from 1993 on to replace Patrese. Badoer would then went straight to Ferrari, having many luck, which gave him a fighting chance against teammate Senna. Damon Hill would probably end up at Jordan after Boutsen retired and Coulthard wouldn't be heared of, instead would become a succesful BTCC driver.


Honda quit in 1992, and I don't think Mansell's retirement would have changed that in the slightest. Mansell could've still returned with Williams in 1994 should Senna had been killed and embarrass himself with McLaren in 1995, but not with McLaren in 1993, definately. Maybe Mansell would have been CART champion in 1991 and 1992 too. Badoer in Ferrari for 1993? Not a chance, I'm affraid. Things would have been the same for him :lol: Maybe Ferrari would have taken Patrese, with Benetton retaining Brundle. Alesi in Williams could have given a fright or two to Senna, maybe winning in 1994 and/or 1995 and beyond. Damon Hill would have stayed as Williams tester with David Coulthard, but while Damon Hill goes nowhere, Coulthard signs with Tyrrell for 1995, and after doing a good job he's picked up by McLaren in 1996, as happened in real life.
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Re: What If?

Postby David AGS » 21 Jun 2011, 20:33

(Correct me if mentioned before!)

What if the great Ayrton Senna joined Ferrari which was effectively Schumacher's contract in 1996 (which was rumoured), I remember reading it ages ago from'The Life of Senna'.

I think that is difficult to answer though.

A little easier, what if Williams kept Hulkenberg and Barrichello this year, where would Maldonaldo go?

Will di Grassi return next year? Will Liuzzi and Karthikeyan still be at HRT nexy year?
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Re: What If?

Postby This » 21 Jun 2011, 20:42

David AGS wrote:A little easier, what if Williams kept Hulkenberg and Barrichello this year, where would Maldonaldo go?

Will di Grassi return next year? Will Liuzzi and Karthikeyan still be at HRT nexy year?

maldonado would probably be at virgin, hrt or nowhere
grassi will never return, liuzzi will probably be ditchted for a pay-driver unless he really start performing amazing things, karthikeyan will stay.
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Re: What If?

Postby Bleu » 22 Jun 2011, 01:07

David AGS wrote:(Correct me if mentioned before!)

What if the great Ayrton Senna joined Ferrari which was effectively Schumacher's contract in 1996 (which was rumoured), I remember reading it ages ago from'The Life of Senna'.

I think that is difficult to answer though.


Considering what Schumacher did in his first years with Prancing Horse, he wouldn't have achieved better position in 1996 than 3rd. But then he would have won title in 1997 before leaving the sport for good.

I don't think he is kind of person who would have stayed involved in F1 regularly, visited some races, notably in Brazil and of course Bahrain 2010 with other champions.
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Re: What If?

Postby JeremyMcClean » 22 Jun 2011, 01:32

David AGS wrote:(Correct me if mentioned before!)

A little easier, what if Williams kept Hulkenberg and Barrichello this year, where would Maldonaldo go?

Will di Grassi return next year? Will Liuzzi and Karthikeyan still be at HRT nexy year?


If Williams kept Hulkenburg and Barrichello, Maldonado would have probably joined a low-rank team such as Virgin or Toro Rosso. Not HRT, because Maldonado would know better not to join them... not Lotus, because Heikki and Jarno already had contracts for the team..

di Grassi will NOT rejoin F1.

HRT will not exist in F1 next year, so, Liuzzi and Karthikeyan will not be at HRT next year. (Unless HRT suddenly backtracks and decides to join GP2 with their F1 car modified for GP2 regulations)
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Re: What If?

Postby David AGS » 22 Jun 2011, 16:40

Maldonaldo did test with HRT at the end of last season during the 'rookie' tests
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Re: What If?

Postby the Masked Lapwing » 23 Jun 2011, 14:48

I've got one:

What if Craig Lowndes had matched or even beaten JPM in the 1997 F3000 season?
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Re: What If?

Postby David AGS » 25 Jun 2011, 22:39

'The Kid' would have tested the Arrows in late 1997, followed by another season in F3000, when he wins several races, and gets a drive with the Arrows in 1999, instead of de la Rosa. (de la Rosa and his Repsol cash land him a drive as tester at Jordan, and they gets a drive in 1999 when Damon Hill retires mid season).

He does okay, but fails to score a point, goes back to F3000, does poor and returns home to Fred Gibson Motorsport etc
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