The Formula 1 Rejects Teams Association (F1RTA) Thread

[Stramala]

Also, as to what TMLW said, it's not a case of good drivers being in crap cars and vice versa. The bigger teams are going to hold onto their best drivers until it gets to a point that they need extra money (because not every team is guaranteed a competitive season every year). But it's the new teams that will struggle, especially as the only way they will be able to get drivers is from the small pool of rookie drivers who scraped a superlicense.

Although the rookies that come from the F2RWRS WILL have better base stats than any other rookie and any drivers that haven't been upgraded (e.g. the two MRT drivers)

F2RWRS is by far the smallest championship though! Only 22 drivers. Of which my only representitive is 7 seconds a lap slower than everyone else. And quite coincidentally, you've been wiping the floor with everyone in that championship so far...

Or is there really no 'ownership' of drivers, and if Virgin MRT retain both their drivers next season I can take Mitchell Macklin for my own team?? Because if there is a free market I think half of the grid will be queuing for his 'signature'...

[eurobrun]

Also, as to what TMLW said, it's not a case of good drivers being in crap cars and vice versa. The bigger teams are going to hold onto their best drivers until it gets to a point that they need extra money (because not every team is guaranteed a competitive season every year). But it's the new teams that will struggle, especially as the only way they will be able to get drivers is from the small pool of rookie drivers who scraped a superlicense.

Although the rookies that come from the F2RWRS WILL have better base stats than any other rookie and any drivers that haven't been upgraded (e.g. the two MRT drivers)

F2RWRS is by far the smallest championship though! Only 22 drivers. Of which my only representitive is 7 seconds a lap slower than everyone else. And quite coincidentally, you've been wiping the floor with everyone in that championship so far...

Or is there really no 'ownership' of drivers, and if Virgin MRT retain both their drivers next season I can take Mitchell Macklin for my own team?? Because if there is a free market I think half of the grid will be queuing for his 'signature'...

Considering Mitchelll Macklin is based off a real person Wizzie will probably say no.

[Wizzie]

Considering Mitchelll Macklin is based off a real person Wizzie will probably say no.

Exactly. I mean, it took me over a week for me to convince him that it would be a good idea for me to sign him in the first place

And, for the record, Tanner Jason is the best racer on the grid but can't do anything about it because he's such a rubbish qualifier.
EDIT: Besides, your guy Mr McCracken SHOULD have been wiping the floor with Shioya as he is a much better racer as shown here:

First Driver=20,hansuke shioya,15800,200,16050,600
Second Driver=21,phil mccracken,16100,400,16000,300

(300 points equates to roughly just under a second a lap)

With GP4 performance files, race performance comes before qualifying performance which I find quite strange to be honest.

[Aerond]

I know the drivers one salaried contracts might be too complex, but I'm only thinking about the new superlicense law coming in next year. If more teams enter the F1RWRS next year, there might be a shortage of drivers soon. Just my 10 cents.

That was my worry exactly. If the bar is set too high, there will be hardly any drivers available to pick from externally. As it stands right now, my only choice of line-up is Miko Fakkinen/Nobushige Fukuda. Considering the former has the highest random grip rating in the series, and the other will be a rookie, I don't see how I'm going to be even remotely competitive next year...
It means the gulf between F1RWRS regulars and rookies will become enormous, because no-one will want to get rid of their old drivers, because the rookies will have such a big random grip factor, and hence we are into a vicious cycle...

Also, as to what TMLW said, it's not a case of good drivers being in crap cars and vice versa. The bigger teams are going to hold onto their best drivers until it gets to a point that they need extra money (because not every team is guaranteed a competitive season every year). But it's the new teams that will struggle, especially as the only way they will be able to get drivers is from the small pool of rookie drivers who scraped a superlicense.

Oh gosh! People have a tendency here to forget the rules!
I don't think we're going to run short of names. The top 3 in F2RWRS will come with 200, 100 and 50 credits each to help them land a drive in F1RWRS, plus any eligible super license driver can be a regular or a pay driver, as decided by the team signing the driver. Plus a driver coming from F2RWRS with credits must run A FULL season or the team involved will receive a penalty of double the credits that driver was carrying.

[Wizzie]

Plus a driver coming from F2RWRS with credits must run A FULL season or the team involved will receive a penalty of double the credits that driver was carrying.

I don't remember THAT bit but I guess that works too.

And since I plan to run Macklin in the F2RWRS for season 2 as well, if he finishes in the top 3 this year and finishes in the top 3 next year, he will NOT receive credits in 2015 and that prize money will move down to the next person in the championship order.

[Aerond]

Plus a driver coming from F2RWRS with credits must run A FULL season or the team involved will receive a penalty of double the credits that driver was carrying.

I don't remember THAT bit but I guess that works too.

And since I plan to run Macklin in the F2RWRS for season 2 as well, if he finishes in the top 3 this year and finishes in the top 3 next year, he will NOT receive credits in 2015 and that prize money will move down to the next person in the championship order.

That bit wasn't included, but what we don't want is someone getting 200 cr. For giving a driver one race.

[AndreaModa]

What I think is that some engines and chassises will disappear at the end of the year.

Right. I'd like some clarification on this, because it's all well and good banning the turbos for a perfectly reasonable explanation (i.e. the power difference), it's more contentious just removing a bunch of engines and chassis from the list to just make it smaller.

Aerond, I'd like to know if you plan on removing any chassis or engines currently being used by an existing team? Because those teams should be informed prior to their removal, and then given preference on a replacement, as the turbo teams will have.

I agree that just a preference on a new engine for the existing turbo teams, with the engines going back at the normal half price, is acceptable.

What we've got now though are a whole bunch of rules floating about that have come into effect over the past few weeks. We need them all written down and clearly explained in one place. Either the first post on the first page for each championship, or a separate thread or whatever, as long as they're easily accessible.

[Shizuka]

Aerond, I'd like to know if you plan on removing any chassis or engines currently being used by an existing team? Because those teams should be informed prior to their removal, and then given preference on a replacement, as the turbo teams will have.

I am willing to let the '97 Lola chassis disappear. It's useless even after reliability tune-ups. And I want to get another chassis anyway.
I know my word doesn't count a lot (or any!), but I think this chassis should never ever be in competition again.

[Aerond]

Aerond, I'd like to know if you plan on removing any chassis or engines currently being used by an existing team? Because those teams should be informed prior to their removal, and then given preference on a replacement, as the turbo teams
.

Of course not, just some which nobody want. I'll keep one or two of the cheapest, but i'll remove mainly those which are unwanted. There'll be some new as well.

[SuperAguri]

2 - Teams with Turbo engines should be given the full market value for their engines and allowed to buy another engine, otherwise all the turbo teams will slide backwards. And in real life that did not happen.

There should be more engines, including engines that only existed on paper. I am sure reading in an old F1 Racing magazine there was a Marrs engine that should have come out, but never did or from companies that have never entered F1, a Russian Lada engine would be funny

I don´t know, there´re only 3 teams affected by this. I don´t think teams affected will slide backwards, as these teams will have probably credits enough to afford any engine available.

Well the Zakspeed teams yes, but Sunshine look like they might suffer if they are given half credits and forced to buy another engine...

I don´t think there should be more engines. Currently there´s 21 engines available (which would be enough to supply 42 teams!). The engines disappearing will be replaced by others, but I don´t think much more engines would increase the fun. What I think is that some engines and chassises will disappear at the end of the year.

Well get rid of half of the Ford engines as do we really need 5 types of Ford? There were never more then 3 different types of Ford engine per season. Some of the others could disappear with anyone losing any love for them. Sill would like to see a Lada and Suzuki engine...

BTW my championship is set in 1994ish and uses drivers froma parallel universe. So drivers from that should not be able to race here unless then want to age 20 years...

[Aerond]

Well get rid of half of the Ford engines as do we really need 5 types of Ford? There were never more then 3 different types of Ford engine per season. Some of the others could disappear with anyone losing any love for them. Sill would like to see a Lada and Suzuki engine...

BTW my championship is set in 1994ish and uses drivers froma parallel universe. So drivers from that should not be able to race here unless then want to age 20 years...

As I said, We´re not going to get rid of engines which are currently in use, only those that nobody is interested about.

[Klon]

Plus a driver coming from F2RWRS with credits must run A FULL season or the team involved will receive a penalty of double the credits that driver was carrying.

That bit wasn't included, but what we don't want is someone getting 200 cr. For giving a driver one race.

What? So, in essence I would get punished beyond belief if I were to put Alberto Cara in for only two or three races as I have already announced to do? Don't you think that is too harsh? While I may be able to run Cara the full season, seeing as my year of pay-drivers and the changed TV money system will make me competitive in 2015 already. If anything, I would say that we should do the following:

A F2RWRS prize sponsorship winning driver that joins a team at the beginning of the 2015 F1RWRS season will have his team asked whether he or she will be used during the entire season. If denied, the sponsorship will not be paid and goes to the next driver. If affirmed, the team gets the sponsorship and will be punished if the driver is released.

[This]

In think drivers that ran in other championships than the FxRWRS should been given some better values than rookies.. After all, some of them were F1-drivers.

[Aerond]

A F2RWRS prize sponsorship winning driver that joins a team at the beginning of the 2015 F1RWRS season will have his team asked whether he or she will be used during the entire season. If denied, the sponsorship will not be paid and goes to the next driver. If affirmed, the team gets the sponsorship and will be punished if the driver is released.

Seems quite reasonable.

In think drivers that ran in other championships than the FxRWRS should been given some better values than rookies.. After all, some of them were F1-drivers.

The goal is to create a whole racing environment between F1RWRS, F2RWRS and F3RWRS, and we´ve given the whole 2014 season to introduce any external drivers. That said, when Chris Dagnall or Jack Christopherson were introduced, they weren´t given any special advantage, neither Daniel Melrose... If none of these drivers got any advantage, I don´t see why any others should. F1RWRS drivers will be as good as the team owners want them to be.

[dr-baker]

BTW my championship is set in 1994ish and uses drivers froma parallel universe. So drivers from that should not be able to race here unless then want to age 20 years...

Exhibit A - Michael Schumacher
Exhibit B - Rubens Barrichello

I rest my case.

[Klon]

BTW my championship is set in 1994ish and uses drivers froma parallel universe. So drivers from that should not be able to race here unless then want to age 20 years...

Exhibit A - Michael Schumacher
Exhibit B - Rubens Barrichello

I rest my case.

Leonhard Von Gottorp for Foxdale?

[dr-baker]

BTW my championship is set in 1994ish and uses drivers froma parallel universe. So drivers from that should not be able to race here unless then want to age 20 years...

Exhibit A - Michael Schumacher
Exhibit B - Rubens Barrichello

I rest my case.

Leonhard Von Gottorp for Foxdale?

Exhibit C!

[Klon]

Leonhard Von Gottorp for Foxdale?

Exhibit C!

I was actually proposing a reunion. How about a 73 year old F1RWRS driver?

[dr-baker]

Leonhard Von Gottorp for Foxdale?

Exhibit C!

I was actually proposing a reunion. How about a 73 year old F1RWRS driver?

Is it really fair to replace Jack Christopherson with him?

[the Masked Lapwing]

F1RWRS drivers will be as good as the team owners want them to be.

No, F1RWRS drivers are as good as the teams can afford them to be.

[FullMetalJack]

I was actually proposing a reunion. How about a 73 year old F1RWRS driver?

Is it really fair to replace Jack Christopherson with him?

No it's not.

[Klon]

Is it really fair to replace Jack Christopherson with him?

Von Gottorp brings money. You don't need any other justification. Furthermore, with a recing heritage of 45 years, the random grip range of Von Gottorp is going to be quite low.

[AndreaModa]

F1RWRS drivers will be as good as the team owners want them to be.

No, F1RWRS drivers are as good as the teams can afford them to be.

Agreed. And prior to the removal of the random grip ranges, it was a complete lottery knowing how your drivers would perform at the weekend!

The power of teams being able to influence their drivers' performances will also become less of a factor over time as seats are filled by those coming through the junior ranks. This way their performance will be effectively already determined to some extent, thus we'll create a situation very similar to real life where teams will be falling over themselves to hire the best drivers coming out of F3- and F2RWRS.

Not that I'm against that, I think it sounds like a very interesting and exciting idea!

[Aerond]

Regarding the calendar topic, I would like to present a personal analysis on all the venues we have at the moment:

Adelaide - Even though there´re two races in Australia, it has produced two spectacular season openings so far.

Bathurst - It tends to produce good racing as well. It´s a must despite having two races in the same country (it seems realistic anyway as the trip there must be paid off somehow!)

Brasilia - The race wasn´t very good but this track tends to produce a fair ammount of overtaking. I would give it another chance.

Mexico - It tends to produce good racing and a good ammount of overtaking.

Long Beach - It´s new this year, let´s see how it works but if it doesn´t it shouldn´t be a problem to find another track in the US.

Monaco - This one is mandatory.

Paul Ricard - Another new entry to the calendar. I don´t recall having very entertaining races in my Chris Dagnall career. It could be ditched if it doesn´t produce a good race, as we don´t need another race in the area having Monaco. It substitued Pau in the first place to reduce the high number of street circuits.

Brands Hatch - Another new one. Oulton Park wasn´t bad, but Brands Hatch seems more suitable.

Norisring - It did produce good racing last year. I don´t see any reason to switch this to Nurburgring.

Spa - Mandatory

Monza - This is a new entry. I think one to stay as the "full throttle" race of the season.

Akrotiri Bay - If Monza is in, I don´t see any reason to keep this one. I prefer Monza over this as it presents more overtaking opportunities per lap.

Zandvoort - It´s never been my favourite, but last year race was soooo good, although it´s maybe too close to Spa to keep its race.

Macau - To me this one is great. It produced a crazy race last year and I don´t see any real reason to get rid of it. This year race will be shorter but it should be equally interesting.

Shanghai - This street circuit is a good one, altough I would prefer to stay with Macau and get rid of the Chinese race.

Fuji - Another new adition, I think it´ll produce great racing and a fair ammount of overtaking. 1st corner pile-ups likely.

------------

Now, tracks I would like to try:

- Montreal: This one should be the next to enter the calendar.

- Nurburgring: I like Nurburgring, the only problem is that we have another race in Germany, and at a good track.

- Sepang: I think it´d produce very good Gp2 racing.

- A1 Ring: A track I miss from F1.

- Jaypee: I don´t know how the Gp2 version is. It would be either this or Sepang but I don´t think there´s space for both at the same time.

I´m always open for suggestions, but I feel we should keep going with real tracks (although if Tropico track is REALLY GOOD we shall give it a try)

[Wizzie]

If Montreal is added on the calender, that race's F2RWRS contract might just be saved after all which means that Spain will probably go as I feel that it might produce the worst F2RWRS race this year (That being said, all the F2RWRS races have been fantastic so far IMO). Akrotiri Bay should be the first to go for either Montreal or Istanbul as I keep campaigning for. Finally, if Zandvoort is staying, it has to be back to back with Spa because it simply works that way and Macau should be the season finale.

[AndreaModa]

Plus, we need to compete for the North Sea Trophy!

[Klon]

- Sepang: I think it´d produce very good Gp2 racing.

Well, there you think wrong. I have simulated a number of races there as part of multiple F1 games, the races were mostly uninteresting and with only low amounts of passing.

[FullMetalJack]

- A1 Ring: A track I miss from F1.

You and me both

[Shizuka]

A1 Ring? Sounds like a good idea, but I think that might stretch out the field a bit more.

[Wizzie]

A1 Ring? Sounds like a good idea, but I think that might stretch out the field a bit more.

I found that with the F2RWRS race, it actually compressed most of the field until the pitstops.

[Aerond]

So, possible changes for 2015.

OUT: Paul Ricard, Akrotiri Bay, Shanghai
IN: Montreal, A1 Ring, Jaypee (if track is right, if not I guess we could try Istanbul)

[Klon]

And what about the possible Tropico track. It would be better than Istanbul ... then again, virtually any race track in the world is better than Istanbul so I don't think it helps.

[Warren Hughes]

Does anyone have a circuit map for Akrotiri Bay?

[RealRacingRoots]

Just putting this out there. If someone doesn't read the thread title properly, the acronym could be read as FARTA rather than F1RTA.

[Wizzie]

And what about the possible Tropico track. It would be better than Istanbul ... then again, virtually any race track in the world is better than Istanbul so I don't think it helps.

Which one? The epic Tropico track I designed or the not so epic track you're making?

[Klon]

And what about the possible Tropico track. It would be better than Istanbul ... then again, virtually any race track in the world is better than Istanbul so I don't think it helps.

Which one? The epic Tropico track I designed or the not so epic track you're making?

The partly epic track I have chosen to make now - I don't like my one, so I am going to make a combination of a pseudo-street circuit and a part of your proposal.

[Wizzie]

With that meeting over, the Formula 1 Rejects Teams Association has made great progress with the F1RWRS Commission to bring in many rule changes to bring a more equal playing field to the F1RWRS next season. In addition, we have expanded the Reject License criteria to allow more drivers to be selected for F1RWRS drives and we've finally killed the elephant in the room that is the Mediterranean Grand Prix. The agenda for the next meeting (Closes after pre-qualifying for the German Grand Prix) is currently as follows:

1. New F2RWRS regulations for 2015 and beyond (Possible new car, possible new engine, new teams etc)
2. Formal application by BMW to have the P-87 engine available for F1RWRS use
3. To be announced by WarrenHughes
4. B Teams (Requested by Kostas22)

(And yes, I like being the ego-centric maniac that runs the F1RTA. It makes me feel powerful )

[Stramala]

1. Dallara Automobili will submit a tender offer in the event of a new chassis manufacturer being a possibility in F2RWRS. Lancia, in conjunction with Montaggio Motori (the engine development division of Ferrari S.p.A.) will offer a brand new 2.4L V8, limited to 17,000rpm to improve reliability and reduce costs.
Scuderia Alitalia has already submitted their entry for the 2015 F2RWRS season, in line with their current F3RWRS program, and their intended F1RWRS programme.

2. Only if the aforementioned 2.4L V8 is also approved for the championship. Considering it will be based upon technology from the Ferrari 056 V8 from F1, it has as much right to be there as a BMW P-87. The engine will be officially badged as the Lancia 015.

[Wizzie]

1. Dallara Automobili will submit a tender offer in the event of a new chassis manufacturer being a possibility in F2RWRS. Lancia, in conjunction with Montaggio Motori (the engine development division of Ferrari S.p.A.) will offer a brand new 2.4L V8, limited to 17,000rpm to improve reliability and reduce costs.
Scuderia Alitalia has already submitted their entry for the 2015 F2RWRS season, in line with their current F3RWRS program, and their intended F1RWRS programme.

2. Only if the aforementioned 2.4L V8 is also approved for the championship. Considering it will be based upon technology from the Ferrari 056 V8 from F1, it has as much right to be there as a BMW P-87. The engine will be officially badged as the Lancia 015.

It is true that the F1RWRS Commission is disappointed with certain aspects of the Lola chassis, particularly its habit of catching airtime with the slightest bit of contact but as it stands, the contract states a possible tender process cannot start for a new chassis until 2016 at the earliest. The Lancia engine however is an interesting proporsition. The engines will basically be even should the majority of the F2RWRS team owners agree to opening up the engine market. The current BMW P-87 powerplan is also a V8 but a 2.5L restricted to 16000rpm to save on wear and tear. Should the proposal for the Lancia engine be rejected however, BMW is looking at the possibility of running the P-89 in the F2RWRS.

[AndreaModa]

1. I'm happy with the one make rule at the moment in the F2RWRS, but I'd equally welcome some competition into the series. I do believe Jones Racing hold the first preferential slot for 2015?

2. No. Simple as that. You might as well keep the turbo charged engines in there if you have the P87, because it would blow most of the current engines on the list into the weeds.