Aerolab and Force India at it again...

[Wizzie]

This is going to get ulgy...

As if Force India didn't have enough problems as it is.

[shinji]

Awww here it goes!


Apologies for the reference.

[eagleash]

Mallya could get fed up with this.

[mario]

This is going to get ulgy...

As if Force India didn't have enough problems as it is.

I thought that with the previous judgement, both parties had reached a settlement (even if it was distinctly fractious). I wasn't expecting Aerolab to continue litigation, but it seems that they are keen to step things up a notch - and that despite the fact that their legal action had lead to a favourable settlement (the €1m, plus 8% interest and paying Aerolab's legal fees).
I don't like the sound of this particular comment, though:

"The upcoming Italian Grand Prix at Monza, during which Force India's assets will be present under Italian jurisdiction, could trigger further exchanges of action between the two parties."

Sounds to me as if Aerolab wants to impound Force India's assets, and potentially force them to withdraw from the Italian GP - which could well be a major blow for the team, given that they must be expecting a strong showing at Monza this year (perhaps not quite like 2009, but probably solidly within the top 10 at least).

It is entirely possible - perhaps they are hoping that having the cars impounded will lead to very heavy media scrutiny, and put Force India in a position where it simply pays up to avoid any further bad publicity.

[AndreaModa]

They're going the same way as Arrows did, all caught up in lawsuits, compensation and the like. If Mallya wasn't so tight fisted and hadn't bothered to make a fuss over Aerolab's involvement with Lotus, they wouldn't be in this mess now surely? His employees are apparently the lowest paid in the paddock which looks like it might be a good thing if hefty settlement payments are going to have to be made. It's a shame, they were looking so promising at the start of this season, and now look. Lawsuits, threat of asset seizure, and they can't score points to save their life right now.

[thehemogoblin]

They're going the same way as Arrows did, all caught up in lawsuits, compensation and the like. If Mallya wasn't so tight fisted and hadn't bothered to make a fuss over Aerolab's involvement with Lotus, they wouldn't be in this mess now surely? His employees are apparently the lowest paid in the paddock which looks like it might be a good thing if hefty settlement payments are going to have to be made. It's a shame, they were looking so promising at the start of this season, and now look. Lawsuits, threat of asset seizure, and they can't score points to save their life right now.

Smells like reject.

[Phoenix]

I don't like the sound of this particular comment, though:

"The upcoming Italian Grand Prix at Monza, during which Force India's assets will be present under Italian jurisdiction, could trigger further exchanges of action between the two parties."

Sounds to me as if Aerolab wants to impound Force India's assets, and potentially force them to withdraw from the Italian GP - which could well be a major blow for the team, given that they must be expecting a strong showing at Monza this year (perhaps not quite like 2009, but probably solidly within the top 10 at least).

It is entirely possible - perhaps they are hoping that having the cars impounded will lead to very heavy media scrutiny, and put Force India in a position where it simply pays up to avoid any further bad publicity.

Can they impound Force India's assets? Maybe that's going too far for an issue like that? I hope that everything ends with nothing more than some fuss; really, after all it was Force India who sued them first, but probably they were only over-jealous. It shouldn't end with the withdrawal of the team from the Italian GP.

[CarlosFerreira]

Can they impound Force India's assets? Maybe that's going too far for an issue like that? I hope that everything ends with nothing more than some fuss; really, after all it was Force India who sued them first, but probably they were only over-jealous. It shouldn't end with the withdrawal of the team from the Italian GP.

Hang on, don't forget Force India has presented some criminal charges against Aerolab's CEO directly. Mallya simply isn't cutting back, it looks like he wants to bluff them into shutting up and moving on.

It's not looking pretty at all for Force India, what with a number of people high up the tech hierarchy shifting around and successive on-track cock-ups.

[Alianora La Canta]

It would have helped if Aerolab hadn't attempted to sue one of Force India's directors for alleged bad-mouthing. This tit-for-tat arguing is starting to sound like a B-movie parody of international diplomatic relations between... ...two not particularly friendly countries.

If Aerolab is planning on impounding anything in Italy, they should probably see whoever attempted it in Spa last year to avoid making the same mistakes.

[mario]

Can they impound Force India's assets? Maybe that's going too far for an issue like that? I hope that everything ends with nothing more than some fuss; really, after all it was Force India who sued them first, but probably they were only over-jealous. It shouldn't end with the withdrawal of the team from the Italian GP.

Hang on, don't forget Force India has presented some criminal charges against Aerolab's CEO directly. Mallya simply isn't cutting back, it looks like he wants to bluff them into shutting up and moving on.

It's not looking pretty at all for Force India, what with a number of people high up the tech hierarchy shifting around and successive on-track cock-ups.

They have indeed - and Aerolab are furious about that case, which is why I suggested that they may go to quite some effort to turn the tables on Force India (indeed, the idea that Mallya is calling their bluff has been raised - but, if anything, Aerolab are shouting even more loudly about what is going on).

As for the idea of impounding the cars, I think that it would be quite extreme, but not entirely impossible, that Aerolab would go to such lengths. Since Force India have been ordered to pay Aerolab compensation, but have failed to pay up so far, there is the possibility that Aerolab might try to seize the assets of Force India in lieu of the debt. I think, but I might be wrong on this, that there was a team which once had their cars seized until they paid their engine suppliers. Similarly, as we saw with the case of Soucek, he managed to have the cars of the Coloni GP2 team seized during his contractual dispute, which eventually lead to the team having to withdraw from that race - so there is a precedence for that sort of action.
More likely, however, is the possibility that Aerolab wants to bring Force India to the negotiating table, and use the tried and tested 'carrot and stick' approach - the carrot being a chance to quickly end the dispute, with the stick being the threat of further legal action.

[CarlosFerreira]

More likely, however, is the possibility that Aerolab wants to bring Force India to the negotiating table, and use the tried and tested 'carrot and stick' approach - the carrot being a chance to quickly end the dispute, with the stick being the threat of further legal action.

Probably, yeah. In fact, compared to this, HRT and Dallara's split up was very quiet.

[Phoenix]

Can they impound Force India's assets? Maybe that's going too far for an issue like that? I hope that everything ends with nothing more than some fuss; really, after all it was Force India who sued them first, but probably they were only over-jealous. It shouldn't end with the withdrawal of the team from the Italian GP.

Hang on, don't forget Force India has presented some criminal charges against Aerolab's CEO directly. Mallya simply isn't cutting back, it looks like he wants to bluff them into shutting up and moving on.

It's not looking pretty at all for Force India, what with a number of people high up the tech hierarchy shifting around and successive on-track cock-ups.

They have indeed - and Aerolab are furious about that case, which is why I suggested that they may go to quite some effort to turn the tables on Force India (indeed, the idea that Mallya is calling their bluff has been raised - but, if anything, Aerolab are shouting even more loudly about what is going on).

As for the idea of impounding the cars, I think that it would be quite extreme, but not entirely impossible, that Aerolab would go to such lengths. Since Force India have been ordered to pay Aerolab compensation, but have failed to pay up so far, there is the possibility that Aerolab might try to seize the assets of Force India in lieu of the debt. I think, but I might be wrong on this, that there was a team which once had their cars seized until they paid their engine suppliers. Similarly, as we saw with the case of Soucek, he managed to have the cars of the Coloni GP2 team seized during his contractual dispute, which eventually lead to the team having to withdraw from that race - so there is a precedence for that sort of action.
More likely, however, is the possibility that Aerolab wants to bring Force India to the negotiating table, and use the tried and tested 'carrot and stick' approach - the carrot being a chance to quickly end the dispute, with the stick being the threat of further legal action.

There was a detail I didn't know-I thought Force India had paid all debts it had with Aerolab regarding the legal costs and that, but there are debts still pending. Then I can understand why the interest of seizing the team's assets, but I agree they maybe prefer to end this quickly and painlessly. The better for Force India as well, in fact, as it's a diversion for them.

[Wizzie]

This may be an epic bump but the case has been settled in Aerolab's favour

[dr-baker]

This may be an epic bump but the case has been settled in Aerolab's favour

I read this on Autosport just before coming on this forum. Then I checked the date of the previous post on this thread. My word, it has been going on a long time!

[nome66]

Awww here it goes!


Apologies for the reference.

Kenan and Kel! ha! awesome.
anyways it does not look too good for force india. they may have to drop a bunch of money on this and suffer the fate of being a backmarker

[AdrianSutil]

$850'000? Not a problem.

[AndreaModa]

And yet, Force India still think they have unfinished business...

Force India to ask FIA to look into the use of its intellectual property by Lotus

[DanielPT]

And yet, Force India still think they have unfinished business...

Force India to ask FIA to look into the use of its intellectual property by Lotus

People should know when enough is enough...

[mario]

And yet, Force India still think they have unfinished business...

Force India to ask FIA to look into the use of its intellectual property by Lotus

People should know when enough is enough...

I have to agree - given that the initial judgement from the courts have rejected Force India's claim of wholesale infringement pretty comprehensively, I expect that the FIA would probably prefer to bring this affair to a close and rebuff Force India's request.
It is hard to see what Force India would gain by their action - the two teams are fairly far apart on the track, and there is no real benefit to my mind, financial or otherwise, for Force India to keep pressing on with their current course of action. If anything, their refusal to accept an out of court settlement has backfired fairly badly - as the earlier Autosport article points out, not only are Force India having to pay damages, they are probably going to have to pay what is likely to be a fairly sizeable bill for legal fees.

[East Londoner]

As the Klaxons once sung, "It's not over, not over, not over, not over yet"

[Phoenix]

As the Klaxons once sung, "It's not over, not over, not over, not over yet"

Because, you know, 25,000 quid is a negligible sum in F1

[mario]

As the Klaxons once sung, "It's not over, not over, not over, not over yet"

This is getting increasingly pointless - whilst they might feel aggrieved by the level of damages awarded to them, how much is it going to cost them in additional legal fees to push ahead with this appeal? Even if they do have the damages increased, they are still making a considerable net loss given a) that they are having to pay nearly 35 times as much to Aerolab as Aerolab are paying them and b) Force India are expected to have to bear the bulk of the legal fees from the initial legal action.

On another note, Marussia have also been getting involved in this case recently; they are currently in talks with the FIA over the verdict of this case, and appear to be making a formal request for the FIA to launch an investigation. Although they are remaining fairly tight lipped about their talks, I wonder if Marussia are hoping that they can get Caterham penalised or stripped of prize money? The chance of profiting from Caterham seems to me to be the most likely reason for them to become involved, since there doesn't seem to be any other link between themselves and Caterham over this case. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98367

[slowest_indian]

If Caterham are deemed to have done something illegal and are penalized and stripped of the last two years results and money...

...would that mean that HRT have now finished in 10th the last two years and would accordingly get all the prize money that comes with it?

[dr-baker]

If Caterham are deemed to have done something illegal and are penalized and stripped of the last two years results and money...

...would that mean that HRT have now finished in 10th the last two years and would accordingly get all the prize money that comes with it?

...Which still means that Marussia/Virgin still would appear to have nothing to gain from this action?

[slowest_indian]

I imagine they would be pushing for Caterham to be disqualified from all race results, with the individual race results amended. I think this would mean that Virgin score a couple of 12th place finishes and would come ahead of HRT in the standings.

However there's no real precedent for this, when Mclaren were disqualified from the championship after spygate they still kept their race positions, just lost all constructors points.

Cheers

[mario]

I imagine they would be pushing for Caterham to be disqualified from all race results, with the individual race results amended. I think this would mean that Virgin score a couple of 12th place finishes and would come ahead of HRT in the standings.

However there's no real precedent for this, when Mclaren were disqualified from the championship after spygate they still kept their race positions, just lost all constructors points.

Cheers

That is true, although in that case there might have been pressure from FOM (specifically Bernie) on the FIA not to disqualify McLaren in the same way that Tyrrell were disqualified in 1984 - removing Hamilton and Alonso from the title battle would have made it less exciting, and therefore less commercially valuable.

On a serious note, I doubt that the FIA would go as far as that - they might not even take any action at all, or levy just a token fine on the team. I guess that Marussia might be hoping for a harsher FIA penalty - perhaps the removal of some of Caterham's prize money - which, if redistributed amongst the other teams, could see them receiving a small windfall of a a few million.

[Wizzie]

Dear God, Force India are STILL going at it

[AndreaModa]

Dear God, Force India are STILL going at it

If they keep on going like this it'll ruin this team. I'm concerned that Force India may turn into a bit of a modern day Arrows and get caught up in all sorts of legal shenanigans that will hit the team hard financially. I really don't see why they don't just sit tight and shut up having already lost the case once.

[DanielPT]

Dear God, Force India are STILL going at it

If they keep on going like this it'll ruin this team. I'm concerned that Force India may turn into a bit of a modern day Arrows and get caught up in all sorts of legal shenanigans that will hit the team hard financially. I really don't see why they don't just sit tight and shut up having already lost the case once.

This, it is all a bit too much and $1MM could well be used in something else. And this is not counting the legal costs of this new case...

[mario]

Dear God, Force India are STILL going at it

If they keep on going like this it'll ruin this team. I'm concerned that Force India may turn into a bit of a modern day Arrows and get caught up in all sorts of legal shenanigans that will hit the team hard financially. I really don't see why they don't just sit tight and shut up having already lost the case once.

You really have to wonder what they think they can gain from this particular case, because I cannot see any significant benefit from their continued litigation against Aerolab and Caterham.

They have already racked up a bill for the best part of £1.35 million in legal fees and compensation from their previous lawsuit, and realistically the judge is unlikely to increase the damages awarded to them by anything like as much as Force India are having to pay out given that damages are awarded in the UK on a compensatory principle (in other words, aiming at rectifying the loss as a result of the actions of the other side) rather than a punitive basis (as in the US). Having the damages increased from £21,000 is only going to make a small dent in the sum that Force India have had to pay out in turn - I know that costs of development are high, but how many man hours would it take to design the components under scrutiny given that they are relatively simple components?

At this rate, you'd have to say that the only real winners from this case are the lawyers - between Caterham, Aerolab and Force India's legal teams, they must have spent in excess of £1 million in legal fees (Force India's costs haven't been disclosed, but they must be comparable to the £650,000 that the other side have racked up), and that sum is only rising...

[Sublime_FA11C]

Where's 'People shouldn't sue each other anymore' Panda these days?

[WeirdKerr]

Where's 'People shouldn't sue each other anymore' Panda these days?

in litigation with the trollface...

[East Londoner]

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeGascoyne/statuses/203578157595508737

Draw your own conclusions. It's certainly not over yet.

[14 Hundred Hours]

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeGascoyne/statuses/203578157595508737

Draw your own conclusions. It's certainly not over yet.

It'll never be over! Even if all teams were stripped of their budgets and equipment and started again as equals with nothing but tinfoil, plywood and monkey-wrenches. There will never be an end.

[mario]

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeGascoyne/statuses/203578157595508737

Draw your own conclusions. It's certainly not over yet.

It'll never be over! Even if all teams were stripped of their budgets and equipment and started again as equals with nothing but tinfoil, plywood and monkey-wrenches. There will never be an end.

If what Gascoyne says is true, it wouldn't be entirely surprising - according to the accounts that they lodged at Companies House last year they are the slowest team to pay their bills (with more than a few complaints about overdue payments), so it wouldn't be entirely out of character if they have failed to pay up.
On a related note, you have to wonder whether at this rate why Force India are continuing to act in this manner - they have had several judgements go against them and have racked up a considerable bill already, whilst taking further legal action could see them marked out as a vexatious litigant and damage their reputation.

[DanielPT]

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeGascoyne/statuses/203578157595508737

Draw your own conclusions. It's certainly not over yet.

It'll never be over! Even if all teams were stripped of their budgets and equipment and started again as equals with nothing but tinfoil, plywood and monkey-wrenches. There will never be an end.

If what Gascoyne says is true, it wouldn't be entirely surprising - according to the accounts that they lodged at Companies House last year they are the slowest team to pay their bills (with more than a few complaints about overdue payments), so it wouldn't be entirely out of character if they have failed to pay up.
On a related note, you have to wonder whether at this rate why Force India are continuing to act in this manner - they have had several judgements go against them and have racked up a considerable bill already, whilst taking further legal action could see them marked out as a vexatious litigant and damage their reputation.

Reputation that is already quite damaged between angry suppliers who don't see their cash in time, these pitiful litigations and essentially the financial troubles of VJ Mallya's airline company... Perhaps the new Sahara co-owners might restore some pride.

[dinizintheoven]

I have to wonder what it'd be like if USF1 had been involved as they were supposed to be. The American reputation for "I'll sue yo' ass!" has been set in stone for so long they'd be certain to get involved in some long, complicated and utterly ruinous lawsuit

[East Londoner]

Honestly, is there anything in the known world apart from Force India who still cares about this?

[Klon]

One day, when extraterristical beings will arrive on our planet, studying the remains of our pathetic cultures, they will stumble across the last of our race. That man obviously had to fight hard to be even able to survive and you can see it: his legs are wobbling and his body is nothing but a mess of bones and skin. The realisation that another intelligent species has set foot on his planet is too much and his weakened body surrenders to death and the last words uttered by this man, and therefore humanity as a whole, shall be: "Aerolab ... owes us ... money!"

And thus, our reputation as underevolved monkeys with too much technology for their own good shall be set in stone until the end of the universe.

[tristan1117]

One day, when extraterristical beings will arrive on our planet, studying the remains of our pathetic cultures, they will stumble across the last of our race. That man obviously had to fight hard to be even able to survive and you can see it: his legs are wobbling and his body is nothing but a mess of bones and skin. The realisation that another intelligent species has set foot on his planet is too much and his weakened body surrenders to death and the last words uttered by this man, and therefore humanity as a whole, shall be: "Aerolab ... owes us ... money!"

And thus, our reputation as underevolved monkeys with too much technology for their own good shall be set in stone until the end of the universe.

Thanks for the new sig!