The Formula 1 Rejects Teams Association (F1RTA) Thread

[AndreaModa]

Whilst we're on the subject of driver contracts, I note with interest that Daniel Melrose is under the illusion that in addition to his 2015 contract with Castrol Jones Racing, he has an additional one year option for 2016. I suggest he re-read that contract again!

In all seriousness, I will not make any commitments for either driver at CJR for 2016 until at least the mid-point of the 2015 season. There's a lot of things that may crop up, and I don't want my hands tied when there could be better opportunities available.

[Wizzie]

Whilst we're on the subject of driver contracts, I note with interest that Daniel Melrose is under the illusion that in addition to his 2015 contract with Castrol Jones Racing, he has an additional one year option for 2016. I suggest he re-read that contract again!

In all seriousness, I will not make any commitments for either driver at CJR for 2016 until at least the mid-point of the 2015 season. There's a lot of things that may crop up, and I don't want my hands tied when there could be better opportunities available.

I like living in the illusion that Melrose's medium term future is secure. Then again, I generally like illusions but that's a story for another day

[Wizzie]

I was about to ask if it was actually legal to transfer credits between teams during the course of a season so thanks for reminding me, Klon

Always a pleasure. I don't see why it shouldn't though, unless someone were to abuse the system horrendously. For normal deals like this one, it should not be wrong. That's just my opinion - although I would need clarification, since I need the money and therefore if it were illegal I would have to look for somebody else to drive the Tropico car.

MRT will still like a clarification of the situation, mostly for future reference more than anything else

[Aerond]

I was about to ask if it was actually legal to transfer credits between teams during the course of a season so thanks for reminding me, Klon

Always a pleasure. I don't see why it shouldn't though, unless someone were to abuse the system horrendously. For normal deals like this one, it should not be wrong. That's just my opinion - although I would need clarification, since I need the money and therefore if it were illegal I would have to look for somebody else to drive the Tropico car.

MRT will still like a clarification of the situation, mostly for future reference more than anything else

It's totally illegal to transfer credits between teams at all times.

Regarding F2RWRS prizes, I must remind you that F1RTA can make proposals regarding driver prizes but the final decision is that of the F1RWRS commission, as it affects how the system plays. I'm really sorry but 200 credits is an absolutely unacceptable quantity and I don't think the problem with pay drivers lie in F2RWRS money. If any of you want
a deeper discussion into this matter I will be happy to arrange a chat session.

[Warren Hughes]

Aerond, I may have occasionally been sceptical about the way F1RWRS is run, but I back you 100% on this.

[Wizzie]

Regarding F2RWRS prizes, I must remind you that F1RTA can make proposals regarding driver prizes but the final decision is that of the F1RWRS commission, as it affects how the system plays. I'm really sorry but 200 credits is an absolutely unacceptable quantity and I don't think the problem with pay drivers lie in F2RWRS money. If any of you want
a deeper discussion into this matter I will be happy to arrange a chat session.

I'm still yet to be convinced that 200 credits is an unacceptable quantity, especially that it's now being split into two 100 credit parachute payments for each half of the season. I've had another think about it and I've come to the conclusion that reducing the payments AND putting it under the paydriver cap is quite possibly the most ridiculous idea I've seen in a long time.

Use this as an example: Put yourself in Jeremy McLean's shoes for a minute. You run a bog-standard midfield team, which would be the type of team most likely to run an F2RWRS driver, and you have the choice between Rosco Vantini and Sayed Al-Faisel. Under the current system, you get 125 credits over the course of the season (100 for the first 8 races and the remaining balance over the next 8) for running Vantini but you're obliged to run him for at least 8 races. Al-Faisel on the other hand is a pay driver who gives 80 credits every four races. What would you do? Having done Commerce and Business Studies for the last three years, I already know the answer to that question. (Hint: There's no way in hell Vantini would get a full season unless he pulls out some mega drives from somewhere)

[AndreaModa]

Regarding F2RWRS prizes, I must remind you that F1RTA can make proposals regarding driver prizes but the final decision is that of the F1RWRS commission, as it affects how the system plays. I'm really sorry but 200 credits is an absolutely unacceptable quantity and I don't think the problem with pay drivers lie in F2RWRS money. If any of you want
a deeper discussion into this matter I will be happy to arrange a chat session.

I'm still yet to be convinced that 200 credits is an unacceptable quantity, especially that it's now being split into two 100 credit parachute payments for each half of the season. I've had another think about it and I've come to the conclusion that reducing the payments AND putting it under the paydriver cap is quite possibly the most ridiculous idea I've seen in a long time.

Use this as an example: Put yourself in Jeremy McLean's shoes for a minute. You run a bog-standard midfield team, which would be the type of team most likely to run an F2RWRS driver, and you have the choice between Rosco Vantini and Sayed Al-Faisel. Under the current system, you get 125 credits over the course of the season (100 for the first 8 races and the remaining balance over the next 8) for running Vantini but you're obliged to run him for at least 8 races. Al-Faisel on the other hand is a pay driver who gives 80 credits every four races. What would you do? Having done Commerce and Business Studies for the last three years, I already know the answer to that question. (Hint: There's no way in hell Vantini would get a full season unless he pulls out some mega drives from somewhere)

I agree with you Wizzie that on financial incentives alone it doesn't work, but then you must consider that Al Faisal is a pay driver, with random stats, and whilst along with Ben Fleet, he's one of the better ones, he still isn't that great. You certainly wouldn't employ him on race pace alone. Now consider Vantini who finished second in the F2RWRS championship, brings with him developed stats, as you've set out for the F2RWRS, and is worth investing credits in for the future. I have no doubt in my mind who I'd want to employ out of those two. Now of course if Vantini came with a whole load more credits then it would make the situation even more attractive, but ultimately, cutting the amount of credits F2RWRS drivers bring to teams isn't going to make much difference. It only really affects the top 3 drivers from the previous year's F2RWRS season as the rest bring inconsequential amounts to teams anyway, with or without the reduction.

Now if Jeremy does indeed take Al Faisal for the credits, his balance will obviously go up, and with that he may be able to improve the car and take it closer to the front, but as well as that he will have a driver that is of midfield quality at best, certainly isn't anything special in qualifying trim. I mean he took the Sunshine car, which was a good, albeit unreliable package to two points finishes in three races, but that is literally all he's done. He's certainly not the worst pay driver, but he and Fleet are exceptions to the rule. The majority of pay drivers are unpredictable, and off the pace. Why risk hiring one when you're a midfield team clearing pre-qualifying easily, when you could take a promising F2RWRS driver, with a few credits to boot, and enjoy better results? It's a no-brainer in my opinion.

As an aside, I think we will have a problem if there are more pay drivers with good stats in the field. Aerond, I think an examination of the stats given to pay drivers needs to be undertaken, and perhaps set a limit on their abilities, because otherwise it will affect things like this and result in many teams doing what Kostas predicted, and running a good pay driver alongside a good regular driver, as you have done with DGN this year.

[dr-baker]

As an aside, I think we will have a problem if there are more pay drivers with good stats in the field. Aerond, I think an examination of the stats given to pay drivers needs to be undertaken, and perhaps set a limit on their abilities, because otherwise it will affect things like this and result in many teams doing what Kostas predicted, and running a good pay driver alongside a good regular driver, as you have done with DGN this year.

Problem is, I believe that for a pay-driver to become a non-pay-driver, he or she needs to score at least 10 points in one season, something that even Ben Fleet is unable to do despite his decent qualifying pace.

[AndreaModa]

As an aside, I think we will have a problem if there are more pay drivers with good stats in the field. Aerond, I think an examination of the stats given to pay drivers needs to be undertaken, and perhaps set a limit on their abilities, because otherwise it will affect things like this and result in many teams doing what Kostas predicted, and running a good pay driver alongside a good regular driver, as you have done with DGN this year.

Problem is, I believe that for a pay-driver to become a non-pay-driver, he or she needs to score at least 10 points in one season, something that even Ben Fleet is unable to do despite his decent qualifying pace.

But that's only because he's been driving unreliable cars. Mark Dagnall may have won the championship for DGN, but whilst MRT have been even more unreliable, DGN have still had their troubles, hence why Aerond hired Fleet in the first place, to generate credits that were spent entirely on reliability.

And for what it's worth, Fleet has scored 10 points in total in his career so far, all of which have come during 2014. Does this mean he isn't a pay driver any more then? I wasn't aware of that rule being in place, but if correct solves the issue I raised quite effectively.

[dr-baker]

And for what it's worth, Fleet has scored 10 points in total in his career so far, all of which have come during 2014. Does this mean he isn't a pay driver any more then? I wasn't aware of that rule being in place, but if correct solves the issue I raised quite effectively.

Scoring 10+ points gives the option to 'upgrade' from a paydriver.

[Stramala]

And for what it's worth, Fleet has scored 10 points in total in his career so far, all of which have come during 2014. Does this mean he isn't a pay driver any more then? I wasn't aware of that rule being in place, but if correct solves the issue I raised quite effectively.

Scoring 10+ points gives the option to 'upgrade' from a paydriver.

OK yeah, that's a clause I'll need to put in his contract - if you ask for that upgrade, he is sacked automatically, no exceptions.

[AndreaModa]

And for what it's worth, Fleet has scored 10 points in total in his career so far, all of which have come during 2014. Does this mean he isn't a pay driver any more then? I wasn't aware of that rule being in place, but if correct solves the issue I raised quite effectively.

Scoring 10+ points gives the option to 'upgrade' from a paydriver.

I see.

In that case then, I propose that either pay drivers stats are limited to the extent that their performance isn't greater than that of regular drivers, and that if this is not an option, that we establish a set of criteria that, once fulfilled, a pay driver automatically becomes a regular driver and can no longer provide a team with additional credits. Because it's obvious why Alitalia, and everyone else would fall over each other to try and sign him if they wanted quick cash. In my opinion if people want to try that tactic they should be handicapped in some way, i.e. pay a penalty for employing a driver that brings money with them. The current idea of pay drivers having random stats is to try and produce that effect, but in the case of some drivers - Fleet, and to a lesser extent Al Faisal, there's no disadvantage to taking them. I think if this continues to happen with other new pay drivers, then we're going to have problems.

[pasta_maldonado]

And for what it's worth, Fleet has scored 10 points in total in his career so far, all of which have come during 2014. Does this mean he isn't a pay driver any more then? I wasn't aware of that rule being in place, but if correct solves the issue I raised quite effectively.

Scoring 10+ points gives the option to 'upgrade' from a paydriver.

I see.

In that case then, I propose that either pay drivers stats are limited to the extent that their performance isn't greater than that of regular drivers, and that if this is not an option, that we establish a set of criteria that, once fulfilled, a pay driver automatically becomes a regular driver and can no longer provide a team with additional credits. Because it's obvious why Alitalia, and everyone else would fall over each other to try and sign him if they wanted quick cash. In my opinion if people want to try that tactic they should be handicapped in some way, i.e. pay a penalty for employing a driver that brings money with them. The current idea of pay drivers having random stats is to try and produce that effect, but in the case of some drivers - Fleet, and to a lesser extent Al Faisal, there's no disadvantage to taking them. I think if this continues to happen with other new pay drivers, then we're going to have problems.

Then again, the current situation is just like in real life. At the moment, Pastor Maldonado, who was considered a pay driver, has won a race. If rthere was a credit penalty for employing pay drivers, surely that defeats the object of a pay driver?

[AndreaModa]

No because the idea of pay drivers is provide teams with additional credits. If however we have pay drivers with decent race stats, as we have with Fleet, then they'll never be out of a job. In fact I can't believe he wasn't given a drive immediately for 2014. And if the trend continues, and we got more, we'll end up with that becoming the de facto set up for most teams, otherwise they'll be left behind. I'm of the opinion that there needs to be a penalty for taking pay drivers over regular drivers, and I don't think the current method is enough of a penalty.

[dr-baker]

And for what it's worth, Fleet has scored 10 points in total in his career so far, all of which have come during 2014. Does this mean he isn't a pay driver any more then? I wasn't aware of that rule being in place, but if correct solves the issue I raised quite effectively.

Scoring 10+ points gives the option to 'upgrade' from a paydriver.

OK yeah, that's a clause I'll need to put in his contract - if you ask for that upgrade, he is sacked automatically, no exceptions.

That won't happen - he may yet be valuable to Foxdale as a pay-driver!

No because the idea of pay drivers is provide teams with additional credits. If however we have pay drivers with decent race stats, as we have with Fleet, then they'll never be out of a job. In fact I can't believe he wasn't given a drive immediately for 2014. And if the trend continues, and we got more, we'll end up with that becoming the de facto set up for most teams, otherwise they'll be left behind. I'm of the opinion that there needs to be a penalty for taking pay drivers over regular drivers, and I don't think the current method is enough of a penalty.

I still stand by the fact that Ben Fleet has decent qualifying pace, but has yet to show a decent finishing record, thereby race stats are relatively meaningless in his case.

[Aerond]

Right now, a regular driver starts with 14000 performance points, while Pay Drivers start with a random number between 13500 and 14500, and a different number for Qualifying and Race. The thing is I expect people to improve their regular drivers over time and the starting number for regular drivers will eventually increase while I don´t have plans to increase the starting number for Pay Drivers for the foreseeable future.

[AndreaModa]

Right now, a regular driver starts with 14000 performance points, while Pay Drivers start with a random number between 13500 and 14500, and a different number for Qualifying and Race. The thing is I expect people to improve their regular drivers over time and the starting number for regular drivers will eventually increase while I don´t have plans to increase the starting number for Pay Drivers for the foreseeable future.

That's fair enough then, so I guess over time pay drivers will gradually become slightly worse overall, and thus solve the problem anyway. No worries!

[Wizzie]

It occurred to me a few minutes ago that I actually had no idea who changed it to 200 credits in the first place. A quick search answered that question for me though. Seriously, just make up your mind already.

Oh and as an aside, I used my ever nifty performance calculation program to see driver performance through the range from 13500 to 14500 and I've come to some rather interesting conclusions.

[Aerond]

It occurred to me a few minutes ago that I actually had no idea who changed it to 200 credits in the first place. A quick search answered that question for me though. Seriously, just make up your mind already.

Oh and as an aside, I used my ever nifty performance calculation program to see driver performance through the range from 13500 to 14500 and I've come to some rather interesting conclusions.

And again, that was way before we brought F1RWRS prizes down and TV credits were changed.

[Wizzie]

It's just occurred to me that Aeroracing is in direct contravention of Article 1.2.1 of the regulations pertaining to the limit of drivers one member/agent can run in either of the three categories at one time for 2015 with 7 at my last count (Both McAllisters, the Stig, Jason, Bellic, King and Suoto Maior). Now, I think the obvious and best solution would be to sack both the muppets in his F2RWRS team, promote Suoto Maior into one seat and put Marie Simon in the other seat but I guess that's up to him to decide

[eurobrun]

It's just occurred to me that Aeroracing is in direct contravention of Article 1.2.1 of the regulations pertaining to the limit of drivers one member/agent can run in either of the three categories at one time for 2015 with 7 at my last count (Both McAllisters, the Stig, Jason, Bellic, King and Suoto Maior). Now, I think the obvious and best solution would be to sack both the muppets in his F2RWRS team, promote Suoto Maior into one seat and put Marie Simon in the other seat but I guess that's up to him to decide

In my opinion there are much better available pay drivers than The Stig. [/advice]

[Wizzie]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

[SuperAguri]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

You mean Melrose driving for a team that can win constantly and one he owns, rather then one that is going to be stuck in the midfield again?

[eurobrun]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

Hmm, I cam only count 5. Davies, F Zimmer, Simpson, R Zimmer and Melville.

[Wizzie]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

Hmm, I cam only count 5. Davies, F Zimmer, Simpson, R Zimmer and Melville.

Oh shite, you're right too. I confused Nash as his driver again.

Continue as you were. Now excuse me whilst Melrose finds his whiskey cabinet

[Wizzie]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

You mean Melrose driving for a team that can win constantly and one he owns, rather then one that is going to be stuck in the midfield again?

That remains to be seen. Seriously, does anyone in the known universe think a Melrose/Davies partnership on any level will work for longer than three weeks?

[the Masked Lapwing]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

You wouldn't sack me. You know I'd throw your bag on the shade cloth again, and this time leave your laptop inside

[Wizzie]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

You wouldn't sack me. You know I'd throw your bag on the shade cloth again, and this time leave your laptop inside

I still can't believe you guys were big enough douches to throw it up there to begin with.

[eurobrun]

Well, turns out Lappy's one over that limit as well. Idiot.

EDIT: Suddenly, this means I have absolutely no reason to obligate Davies' contract until his sorts this mess out, opening up a world of options to Melrose. Win for me

You wouldn't sack me. You know I'd throw your bag on the shade cloth again, and this time leave your laptop inside

I still can't believe you guys were big enough douches to throw it up there to begin with.

Sounds like your school is a lot more interesting than mine

[FMecha]

I think we should revive DSQ as punishments.

[Wizzie]

I think we should revive DSQ as punishments.

I agree, only for the reason that it's funny as hell for everyone else whenever someone gets disqualified

Oh and I was dead serious about Phoenix's predicamen as I can count to 7 just fine. Counting to 5 on the other hand is a bit of a challenge.

[Klon]

Wasn't the only reason Zimsanity didn't get DSQ'd because he retired anyhow?

[the Masked Lapwing]

Wasn't the only reason Zimsanity didn't get DSQ'd because he retired anyhow?

No, he finished the race, and he wasn't even last

[FMecha]

Right, I have not heard anything from DanielPT (he last posted on June 21 and on PMMF June 14 to mark Kay Lon's sacking from Sunshine - team that he now owns - Jossed, despite his announcement to move to Prospec) and that questions the fate of Sunshine's purchase. If Daniel remains AWOL continously until the end of the F1RWRS Japanese GP (I'm eagerly waiting!), it could end up to be a unmanaged VIC-like farce.

So what we should do? If Daniel is still AWOL, should we give it to someone else in the waiting list (i.e. This)?

[Warren Hughes]

Right, I have not heard anything from DanielPT (he last posted on June 21 and on PMMF June 14 to mark Kay Lon's sacking from Sunshine - team that he now owns - Jossed, despite his announcement to move to Prospec) and that questions the fate of Sunshine's purchase. If Daniel remains AWOL continously until the end of the F1RWRS Japanese GP (I'm eagerly waiting!), it could end up to be a unmanaged VIC-like farce.

So what we should do? If Daniel is still AWOL, should we give it to someone else in the waiting list (i.e. This)?

Don't be daft, 2 weeks isn't AWOL

[dr-baker]

Right, I have not heard anything from DanielPT (he last posted on June 21 and on PMMF June 14 to mark Kay Lon's sacking from Sunshine - team that he now owns - Jossed, despite his announcement to move to Prospec) and that questions the fate of Sunshine's purchase. If Daniel remains AWOL continously until the end of the F1RWRS Japanese GP (I'm eagerly waiting!), it could end up to be a unmanaged VIC-like farce.

So what we should do? If Daniel is still AWOL, should we give it to someone else in the waiting list (i.e. This)?

Don't be daft, 2 weeks isn't AWOL

This is FMecha we're talking about. He thinks 3 days is AWOL...

[AndreaModa]

Right, I have not heard anything from DanielPT (he last posted on June 21 and on PMMF June 14 to mark Kay Lon's sacking from Sunshine - team that he now owns - Jossed, despite his announcement to move to Prospec) and that questions the fate of Sunshine's purchase. If Daniel remains AWOL continously until the end of the F1RWRS Japanese GP (I'm eagerly waiting!), it could end up to be a unmanaged VIC-like farce.

So what we should do? If Daniel is still AWOL, should we give it to someone else in the waiting list (i.e. This)?

Don't be daft, 2 weeks isn't AWOL

Agreed. There's plenty of time yet, if he doesn't post before the Japanese GP, the Sunshine line-up will remain unchanged for that race, and then afterwards there's plenty more time until the chassis/engine lists are open. In other words, treat it in the same way we waited for SuperAguri!

[FMecha]

I have mailed him (DanielPT) previously but he did not came. Anyway, that post was unnecessary.

Because of people telling me 'impatient', I shall condone my own law, that is Mecha's Law: Everything/Everyone that is inactive, that is related with the Perry McCarthy Memorial Forum, even for a short time, could be labeled by FMecha as AWOL.

Also AndreaModa, do you have any comments regarding reintroduction of DSQ?

[AndreaModa]

Also AndreaModa, do you have any comments regarding reintroduction of DSQ?

Yeah sounds cool, though I'd want to hear Aerond's thoughts on it too, because I'm not sure how it would interfere with the mechanics of the game. I think the only way to implement DSQs would be after each race, rather than during them, but I may be wrong.

[Phoenix]

I have mailed him (DanielPT) previously but he did not came. Anyway, that post was unnecessary.

Because of people telling me 'impatient', I shall condone my own law, that is Mecha's Law: Everything/Everyone that is inactive, that is related with the Perry McCarthy Memorial Forum, even for a short time, could be labeled by FMecha as AWOL.

Also AndreaModa, do you have any comments regarding reintroduction of DSQ?

You kindly sent me an e-mail telling me I was exceeding the maximum number of drivers that could be controlled by a single user. So, I want to offer to prospective employers the services of César Vialpando and Judd McAllister for any categories they wish.