Double DRS banned for 2013

[Wizzie]

Majority of teams agreed to rule change at the last Technical Working Group meeting.

[jackanderton]

How significant are the differences going to be for next year?

It seems like this year is the end for this era of F1 cars, or so people keep saying.

Is it likely one team will steal a march on everyone else or will it be quite even like this year? When there are new things to exploit and it's back to the drawing board, there's nearly always a trailblazing team- Bennetton in 1994, McLaren in 1998, Ferrari in 2002, Brawn in 2009.

[Wizzie]

How significant are the differences going to be for next year?

It seems like this year is the end for this era of F1 cars, or so people keep saying.

Is it likely one team will steal a march on everyone else or will it be quite even like this year? When there are new things to exploit and it's back to the drawing board, there's nearly always a trailblazing team- Bennetton in 1994, McLaren in 1998, Ferrari in 2002, Brawn in 2009.

As far as I know, that's the only real interesting change for next year. The V6s don't come in until 2014.

[eurobrun]

Can't say I'm surprised at this really.

[Nuppiz]

Can't say I'm surprised at this really.

Yeah, it's typical for these days - someone designs a revolutionary new system and it is banned next year or even after a few GPs. I mean, if they think this is cutting the costs, then they're wrong because now teams are wasting tons of money to research something that might just get banned after a while.

[Wizzie]

Can't say I'm surprised at this really.

Yeah, it's typical for these days - someone designs a revolutionary new system and it is banned next year or even after a few GPs. I mean, if they think this is cutting the costs, then they're wrong because now teams are wasting tons of money to research something that might just get banned after a while.

And it's not as if the Double DRS is THAT effective to start off with anyway.

[Nuppiz]

Can't say I'm surprised at this really.

Yeah, it's typical for these days - someone designs a revolutionary new system and it is banned next year or even after a few GPs. I mean, if they think this is cutting the costs, then they're wrong because now teams are wasting tons of money to research something that might just get banned after a while.

And it's not as if the Double DRS is THAT effective to start off with anyway.

Exactly, just like the engine mapping debacle in Gernamy - the Red Bulls were 3rd (not counting the illegal move and the penalty which followed) and 8th, so it hardly gave them an edge.

[mario]

How significant are the differences going to be for next year?

It seems like this year is the end for this era of F1 cars, or so people keep saying.

Is it likely one team will steal a march on everyone else or will it be quite even like this year? When there are new things to exploit and it's back to the drawing board, there's nearly always a trailblazing team- Bennetton in 1994, McLaren in 1998, Ferrari in 2002, Brawn in 2009.

As far as I know, that's the only real interesting change for next year. The V6s don't come in until 2014.

At the moment, the changes between 2012 and 2013 are likely to be limited, although there were some discussions between the FIA and TWG earlier this year over bringing in the lower noses (currently part of the 2014 rules package) in 2013 instead on safety grounds.

Can't say I'm surprised at this really.

Yeah, it's typical for these days - someone designs a revolutionary new system and it is banned next year or even after a few GPs. I mean, if they think this is cutting the costs, then they're wrong because now teams are wasting tons of money to research something that might just get banned after a while.

In this instance, there does not seem to be too much wasted investment - Lotus are, as far as I am aware, the only other team who has diverted any resources towards this area, because just about every other team have said that the cost of development outweighs the potential performance benefit that they could yield (McLaren and Sauber, for example, have both said that they are finding greater performance gains elsewhere on the car for less money).
The principle of restricting developments for cutting costs does at times seem counter intuitive, though, that cannot be denied...

[nome66]

for me the end of an era happens when something particularly drastic changes in the rulebook. like the axing of an engine config like the v10s, v12s and that flat 12 coloni had. or maybe the actual dimensions of the car change like between 2008 and 2009. 2009 was the beginning of the KERS era and the return of slick tires.
anyways, the banning of double DRS probably won't change the racing aspect unless the car was designed around the system.

[AdrianSutil]

I didn't think the 'design' of the car will be affected. After all, it's a flap in the rear-wing, not an actual piece of the car (whole FW, RW, engine cover etc). Cars will have to run a slightly lower top gear to compensate. Unless I'm missing something here...

[Phoenix]

They should, in my opinion, focus on banning only the things that are demonstrably detrimental to the sport, and only after the end of the season, to have enough time to make up the mind. I don't see why double DRS should be banned, perhaps Mercedes would think about dropping the idea after some time.

[nome66]

they should only ban the stuff that can actually determine race results, such as the '94 Benetton's trac-*cough* innovative engine mapping and tire management, which was way more effective than what Red Bull tried to slip under the radar.
a good way they exercised their ban-saw recently was on blown Exhaust diffusers. they made a horrible racket when being use on the Renault-powered cars especially Red Bull.

[pasta_maldonado]

The FIA must get kicks out of banning stuff, because it's all they ever do at the moment.

[eurobrun]

The FIA must get kicks out of banning stuff, because it's all they ever do at the moment.

At the moment, they've been doing it ever since way before I started watching F1.

[FMecha]

Am I the only person thinking that Double DRS could be a candidate for our "VHS vs Beta" award in our Hall of Shame, in the main site?

[Bleu]

These are certainly ones where you could classify new era in design.
1989 - Turbos banned
1994 - TC, ABS, active suspension etc. banned
1998 - Grooved tyres introduced
2009 - Major bodywork changes

2003 had some major rule changes but they were mostly sporting ones so I don't classify them.

[mario]

Am I the only person thinking that Double DRS could be a candidate for our "VHS vs Beta" award in our Hall of Shame, in the main site?

Perhaps - Anderson's take on the DDRS system over at the BBC is quite critical, as he seems to believe that Mercedes's performance might actually be hindered by the DDRS.

It turns on his opinion that, because there is a larger delay between the DRS system being deactivated and the airflow across the front wing elements to become reattached than for the rear wing, it results in a car that tends to understeer in qualifying trim. He believes that the efforts of Mercedes to balance the car in qualifying trim, therefore, leads to a car that tends to oversteer in race trim, causing excessive tyre wear; in order to combat that, Mercedes are having to compromise their rear suspension settings and have been reducing their front wing settings in order to shift the centre of pressure of the car rearwards, making the car more stable but exaggerating the tendency to understeer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19064856

It is an interesting theory if true - if it really is the case that the DDRS is causing balance issues, it might explain why the other teams are mostly disinterested in copying that idea (although it would be slightly counterintuitive given that the whole premise of shedding front downforce was to rebalance the car, at least whilst the DRS was in use).

[AndreaModa]

These are certainly ones where you could classify new era in design.
1989 - Turbos banned
1994 - TC, ABS, active suspension etc. banned
1998 - Grooved tyres introduced
2009 - Major bodywork changes

2003 had some major rule changes but they were mostly sporting ones so I don't classify them.

In with those I'd say you have to include the banning of ground effect - what was that, 1982?

[mario]

These are certainly ones where you could classify new era in design.
1989 - Turbos banned
1994 - TC, ABS, active suspension etc. banned
1998 - Grooved tyres introduced
2009 - Major bodywork changes

2003 had some major rule changes but they were mostly sporting ones so I don't classify them.

In with those I'd say you have to include the banning of ground effect - what was that, 1982?

1982 was the last season where sculpted underbodies were allowed, with the modern "flat floor" regulations being imposed in 1983 (although 1982 did see sliding skirts being banned - fixed skirts were permitted, though, leading to very stiffly sprung cars with very limited suspension movement in an attempt to maintain a relatively constant ride height).

I guess that another major period of change would be 1972, where FISA made its first attempt to improve the safety of the sport - that was the year that saw measures like automatic electrical cut off systems and standardised fuel tanks to reduce the risk of fuel fires.

[eurobrun]

Am I the only person thinking that Double DRS could be a candidate for our "VHS vs Beta" award in our Hall of Shame, in the main site?

To be honest I don't really think Double DRS was effective enough.

[nome66]

Blown Exhuast is a very real candidate. eugh just take a listen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmGgvHflXgc