No Turkish GP after 2010?

[Wizzie]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80613
Apparently Bernie Jacked up the price for them to hold a race after 2010 and Turkish GP officials ain't happy

[Tealy]

It sounds like Bernie is trying to force them out so he can bring in a richer country.

Still from my point of view losing Turkey from the calendar is no big deal. I like the track but nobody attends it so really it's space should go to a track/country with real fans. Sadly it probably wont.

[eagleash]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80613
Apparently Bernie Jacked up the price for them to hold a race after 2010 and Turkish GP officials ain't happy

Anyone else completely underwhelmed?

[Yannick]

Since the podium debacle from a few years ago when the FIA fined the Turkish motorsport body hosting the event a huge fine for having the 3rd place trophy presented by a man from the government of Turkish Cyprus, the race has been in trouble. They could only pay the fine by selling the circuit to Bernie Ecclestone. If the circuit is not making any profits for Bernie, which is somewhat likely given its remote location, it wouldn't be a surprise if he intends to no longer generate financial losses with it.

Still, you'd expect that races run on circuits owned by the series itself, FOM or Bernie - should be relatively cheap to stage. But that's not how Bernie's business model works.

[Phoenix]

Perfect then. We won't miss it (until we know who's the new host of his space).

[eagleash]

Perfect then. We won't miss it (until we know who's the new host of his space).

I don't suppose there's any chance of a USGP @ Laguna Seca?

TAXI!

[Jordan192]

I don't suppose there's any chance of a USGP @ Laguna Seca?

Sadly, there really isn't

[Collieafc]

I don't suppose there's any chance of a USGP @ Laguna Seca?

Sadly, there really isn't

If there was, Kobayashi would win, as he would be the only one with enough guts to do the corkscrew

Shame as Turkey is the only Tilke track thats somewhat ok, but at the same time, empty grandstands look embassasing, and its insulting when your constant sell out race is being threatened at the same time...

[FullMetalJack]

I don't suppose there's any chance of a USGP @ Laguna Seca?

Sadly, there really isn't

If there was, Kobayashi would win, as he would be the only one with enough guts to do the corkscrew

Shame as Turkey is the only Tilke track thats somewhat ok, but at the same time, empty grandstands look embassasing, and its insulting when your constant sell out race is being threatened at the same time...

I agree, Istanbul Park is a decent circuit, but by no means great. I'd love to see Estoril as a replacement.

[eagleash]

Funnily enough I had Kobayashi/corkscrew in mind when I disingenuously suggested Laguna Seca.

I think we could re-define the word Banzai...

(We interrupt this broadcast to apologise to our japanese listeners for inappropriate stereotyping)

[Cynon]

I'd like to see Algarve in Portugal replace Istanbul Park. But it will mean no more playing of Istanbul Not Constantinople on the podcast, and I will miss that. ;[

[Phoenix]

Perfect then. We won't miss it (until we know who's the new host of his space).

I don't suppose there's any chance of a USGP @ Laguna Seca?

TAXI!

Shame-the Corkscrew would help us spot the rejects on the grid before season-ending.

[Captain Hammer]

A shame that Turkey might be on the way out - it's one of Tilke's finest circuits, and probably the closest we've come to an instant classic. If I had to make a choice between a poorly-attended Turkish Grand Prix at Istanbul and a sellout American Grand Prix at Indianapolis, I'd take the former in a heartbeat. Formula One features the best drivers in the world racing in the best cars in the world; those races should be run on the most challenging circuits in the world first and everywhere else second. I'd rather have twenty races on circuits like Istanbul and in countries no-one has ever heard of, as opposed to going somewhere like Indianapolis.

I don't suppose there's any chance of a USGP @ Laguna Seca?

It'll never happen. Laguna Seca lacks pit facilities (seriously, there's no building), grandstands (last time I checked, there were just two), and the Corkscrew would instantly fail every safety regulation in the book (and the only way to make it stick would be the water it down, and then you'd all be whinging about that). And aside from the Corkscrew, Laguna Seca doesn't have much. Most of the corners are pretty same-y and there's only one place that Formula One cars could reasonably pass, and that's going into the hairpin.

Bernie Ecclestone has said there is nowhere in America that could host a race if asked to. So that means they either need to build a circuit he'll like, or make some changes to an existing one. And that will take time.

[watka]

The problem is that due to the Grade 1 restrictions (as highlighted in another thread), that tracks have to be pretty much purpose built for F1 tracks. There are plenty of decent Grade 2 tracks out there (of which I presume Laguna Seca is one) but most seem to be in countries which would not want to be bullied around by Mr Ecclestone, and the whole thing could end up being another Donington.

It would be a shame to see Turkey go; a challenging race track that the drivers seem to enjoy.

[eagleash]

The problem is that due to the Grade 1 restrictions (as highlighted in another thread), that tracks have to be pretty much purpose built for F1 tracks. There are plenty of decent Grade 2 tracks out there (of which I presume Laguna Seca is one) but most seem to be in countries which would not want to be bullied around by Mr Ecclestone, and the whole thing could end up being another Donington.

It would be a shame to see Turkey go; a challenging race track that the drivers seem to enjoy.

Does anyone else think that F1 is becoming too rarified (if not a bit mollycoddled) when it comes to safety issues. We obviously don't want to go back to the tragice bad old days but car safety has so improved over the last decade or so. I mean if Brands for example is considerd OK for A1GP (sic) then what makes F1 demand so much higher safety criteria? The A1GP cars are pretty damn quick as it goes & I would venture to suggest that the safety level of the actual cars is not as high as F1.

[Captain Hammer]

I think Ecclestone likes the idea that other series go to circuits built for Formula One, rather than Formula One going to circuits that were originally built for other series.

[ADx_Wales]

No crowd in 2008 or 09, should have left it in the august slot when tourists were in Istanbul, its quite clear that the general turkish public arent interested, or thanks to bernie buck cant afford it, yes there may be a smattering of Turkish F1 fans, but sorry, once again the fans are overlooked in favour of the almighty euro/dollar/krugrand/zenk/plarg (delete as applicable).

[ADx_Wales]

Does anyone else think that F1 is becoming too rarified (if not a bit mollycoddled) when it comes to safety issues. We obviously don't want to go back to the tragice bad old days but car safety has so improved over the last decade or so. I mean if Brands for example is considerd OK for A1GP (sic) then what makes F1 demand so much higher safety criteria? The A1GP cars are pretty damn quick as it goes & I would venture to suggest that the safety level of the actual cars is not as high as F1.

A1GPWCOM cars were pretty quick until they decided to use the Force10/Ferrari instead of the Lola-Zytek which although crudely shaped, was an exciting machine, however its basis was that of the F3000 car that deceased in 2004, so it had the same "Half-Power" of F1, 480hp? same as DTM, same as JGTC/Super GT, Its little wonder that GP2 had to be created to make that one step closer to F1 so that winners wouldnt have such a giant power-leap, which is why the last F3000 champ Liuzzi had a difficult time in F1 to begin with, why nobody in F3000 ever went on to win a F1 championship, GP2 may be expensive to enter but look who its produced, Rosberg, Hamilton.......Piquet Jnr.......:-S.........

As for the grading of circuits to please Bernie and the gang its only going to take time before the people that funded the likes of Sakhir, Jianding, Yas Marina, and soon Seongnam, will have to pull the plug, realise that they cant hold the event that they wanted, FOM will have to bite the bullet and realise that Silverstone, Monza, Suzuka, and (before it was sanitised) Spa, should have (always) been the places to go, and hopefully a return to America on a decent road course, and there are plenty of them.

[Captain Hammer]

[quote="ADx_WalesAs for the grading of circuits to please Bernie and the gang its only going to take time before the people that funded the likes of Sakhir, Jianding, Yas Marina, and soon Seongnam, will have to pull the plug, realise that they cant hold the event that they wanted, FOM will have to bite the bullet and realise that Silverstone, Monza, Suzuka, and (before it was sanitised) Spa, should have (always) been the places to go, and hopefully a return to America on a decent road course, and there are plenty of them.[/quote]
Wishful thinking at its finest. You want to go back to the likes of Spa and Silverstone, so you create an argument that supports it. It's like being a member of the jury in a court case, except that you've decided guilt or innocence before you've seen any of the facts.

[ADx_Wales]

It's like being a member of the jury in a court case, except that you've decided guilt or innocence before you've seen any of the facts.

The facts are staring us in the face, looking at the amount of empty stands at Istanbul, and the Singapore track, you cant help but think that these tracks arent making any kind of profit. Or the kind of profit bernie somehow expects, especially if he owns the place, which is probably why he moved the race to may instead of august, to reduce the crowd numbers, to make the organisers THINK this tracks not good enough, much like the attempted silverstone binning that bernie disguised in "moving the race to donington for 2010" when it quite clearly wasnt going to work from the start, bernie hass always wanted silverstone out of F1, ever since 2000 when it also got moved to an earlier slot in the calendar.

[Chewie]

There's hope for Donington yet!!!!!

Let us have another race at brands or Donington and scrap the embarrassing Turkish GP.

[dr-baker]

Let us have another race at brands and scrap the embarrassing Turkish GP.

If there's ever a grand prix at Brands, I'll be there in a flash!

[eagleash]

Re ADX_Wales comparing the power of GP2/A1GP doesn't really answer the point. The cars are still quick & accidents should they occur pretty devastating. You could say that an F1 car may crash @ an average of 10MPH quicker than the others. Difference in deceleration G negligible, injuries, unquantifiable, but the lesser formulae demand lower safety criteria both in terms of track & car safety. Why is this? Is it all down to Bernie's demands if so why? What is his angle on this one? Increased safety is fine but why the discrepancy?

[eagleash]

Let us have another race at brands and scrap the embarrassing Turkish GP.

If there's ever a grand prix at Brands, I'll be there in a flash!

Me too just as soon as my scooter can do the 20 miles

[watka]

A1GPWCOM cars were pretty quick until they decided to use the Force10/Ferrari instead of the Lola-Zytek which although crudely shaped, was an exciting machine, however its basis was that of the F3000 car that deceased in 2004, so it had the same "Half-Power" of F1, 480hp? same as DTM, same as JGTC/Super GT, Its little wonder that GP2 had to be created to make that one step closer to F1 so that winners wouldnt have such a giant power-leap, which is why the last F3000 champ Liuzzi had a difficult time in F1 to begin with, why nobody in F3000 ever went on to win a F1 championship, GP2 may be expensive to enter but look who its produced, Rosberg, Hamilton.......Piquet Jnr.......:-S.........

Doesn't Superleague Formula have far more powerful cars than GP2? If so, Ho Pin Tung is more ready for F1 than we could ever imagine.

[Phoenix]

Doesn't Superleague Formula have far more powerful cars than GP2? If so, Ho Pin Tung is more ready for F1 than we could ever imagine.

Never mind that; if his destiny is to become a reject...

[RejectSteve]

Doesn't Superleague Formula have far more powerful cars than GP2? If so, Ho Pin Tung is more ready for F1 than we could ever imagine.

Never mind that; if his destiny is to become a reject...

Yes on all three accounts. SF's Menard Competition Technology engines produce 742 horsepower with the boost activated to give an extra 1000 revs.

A1GPWCOM cars were pretty quick until they decided to use the Force10/Ferrari instead of the Lola-Zytek which although crudely shaped, was an exciting machine

Force10, who the plugged bathtub are they?!? No wonder those cars were relative crap - other than just the Ferrari connection. Per qualifying lap, the "A1 Grand Prix car powered by Ferrari," like that never got old , was faster to the tune of 0.5 s (Sepang) to 3.4 s* (Brands Hatch) quicker. In races however, it produced a shite show. Whether that was the car or the Michelin tyres...

* This was with the "joker" qualifying lap regulation that provided the PowerBoost over the duration of one qualifying lap per race weekend - lap times tended to be no more than 1 to 1.5 seconds faster with the poor man's Ferrari F2004 hand-me-down car.