F1 vs Nascar - viewing figures

[dresda]

I figured someone on this forum will just HAVE to know this...

I got into a discussion with a guy at work today regarding the relative viewership for F1 vs Nascar worldwide. I can't find any recent figures. Can anyone here point me to some good sources so I can prove this guy WRONG!

Thanks...

[hclw]

viewing figures of Nascar outside the U.S. = zero
inferiority complex of Nascar fans = massive
tedium of a Nascar race = endless

chances of this thread descending into a Nascar vs F1 fight = high
chances of Nascar winning said fight = low

[jackanderton]

First one to say 'Juan Montoya' wins.

Me, then.

[hclw]

nah, the first person who says 'Dale Earnhardt was faster than Senna' wins

[Cynon]

...and the first person to say they're so different they're not comparable?

Seriously, now, it's like comparing MotoGP to Motocross.

Dale Earnhardt being faster then Senna? In his own form of racing, yes. If Senna came to NASCAR? He'd probably have shown he was fast, but would he outpace Earnhardt, who would have had much more experience in the same type of car? No. Same if Earnhardt went to F1 (and assuming he was built for F1). There's a few NASCAR drivers that I think could have done well in F1 and some F1 drivers that I think could do well in NASCAR.

However, both forms of racing seem to (ironically) have some issues that are identical. Management that has no f$%@ing idea what it's doing and irritating the fans more than it is endearing them (NASCAR has the ridiculous Chase points system and the Car of Tomorrow which looks like a really crappy touring car, F1 has internal politics that are ridiculously annoying and detrimental for the sport), tracks added in the past 15 years that are mostly identical and boring as hell (Tilkedromes for F1 and cookie cutters in NASCAR), mostly boring and anonymous drivers, drivers with no personality, and not too much passing on the track!

F1 is trying to correct the problem, whereas the average NASCAR race would be more entertaining if the tires were at least two inches wider to allow more overtaking.

Both series need more variety in the circuits they run on. Desperately. NASCAR could do with the infield road course at the Brickyard that F1 used to run on, and F1 would be very entertaining to watch on a half mile oval with a bit of banking here and there... say, Bristol Motor Speedway?

NASCAR vs. F1 in viewing figures? F1 takes the cake because it's just more globalized, which is something I'd like to see NASCAR do eventually. F1 would do better in the U.S. if the races weren't on at godawful times, and if there was an American driver doing well -- look what a successful driver did for Germany and Spain.

[dresda]

...and the first person to say they're so different they're not comparable?
Seriously, now, it's like comparing MotoGP to Motocross. <snip>

Yes, we had quite a discussion going today (it being a Friday and all) and there were two of us expounding the superiority of F1 over Nascar, but I didn't agree with the statement made by my ally that Nascar could be done by anyone, it being a just a very different form of motorsport.

But the question is, which has the larger worldwide fan base and the most TV viewers. I did find out that in 2005 the Montreal GP was the third most viewed sporting event on TV, which was a surprise. But recent figures can't be found. And no handy comparison charts either.

However, he did say he'd come up with the figures to prove that Nascar was more 'popular' so we'll see what he comes up with over the weekend!

PS - WSBK is more interesting than MotoGP but what I really miss is WRC...

[beau99]

...and the first person to say they're so different they're not comparable?

Seriously, now, it's like comparing MotoGP to Motocross.

Dale Earnhardt being faster then Senna? In his own form of racing, yes. If Senna came to NASCAR? He'd probably have shown he was fast, but would he outpace Earnhardt, who would have had much more experience in the same type of car? No. Same if Earnhardt went to F1 (and assuming he was built for F1). There's a few NASCAR drivers that I think could have done well in F1 and some F1 drivers that I think could do well in NASCAR.

However, both forms of racing seem to (ironically) have some issues that are identical. Management that has no f$%@ing idea what it's doing and irritating the fans more than it is endearing them (NASCAR has the ridiculous Chase points system and the Car of Tomorrow which looks like a really crappy touring car, F1 has internal politics that are ridiculously annoying and detrimental for the sport), tracks added in the past 15 years that are mostly identical and boring as hell (Tilkedromes for F1 and cookie cutters in NASCAR), mostly boring and anonymous drivers, drivers with no personality, and not too much passing on the track!

F1 is trying to correct the problem, whereas the average NASCAR race would be more entertaining if the tires were at least two inches wider to allow more overtaking.

Both series need more variety in the circuits they run on. Desperately. NASCAR could do with the infield road course at the Brickyard that F1 used to run on, and F1 would be very entertaining to watch on a half mile oval with a bit of banking here and there... say, Bristol Motor Speedway?

NASCAR vs. F1 in viewing figures? F1 takes the cake because it's just more globalized, which is something I'd like to see NASCAR do eventually. F1 would do better in the U.S. if the races weren't on at godawful times, and if there was an American driver doing well -- look what a successful driver did for Germany and Spain.

You said everything I was going to.

And regarding Senna and Earnhardt... Ayrton Senna lost the Karting World Championship in 1978 to former NASCAR driver Lake Speed, of all people.

So if Senna wasn't even the best karter of that season, he'd certainly get smoked by Earnhardt in NASCAR.

[thehemogoblin]

Lake Speed, o' he of one career NASCAR win.

[RejectSteve]

PS - WSBK is more interesting than MotoGP but what I really miss is WRC...

WRC in its glory season of 2000: Mitsubishi, Ford, Subaru, SEAT, Peugeot, Skoda, and Hyundai supported by limited campaigns by Danish and Swedish-run Toyota dealer teams, the FIA Teams' Cup, and various privateer WRC entries. WRC in 2009: Citroen and Ford and not even the Safari Rally. Ugh.

I read somewhere that NASCAR is getting a foothold in both Great Britain and Italy in terms of viewership, though this was a few years ago. Both Dale Earnhardt's proved adequate in limited GT running, though not producing blistering speed. I think Senna would have been successful in stock cars once he learned the game. He had the ruthless aggression to shove anything out of his way, just like he occasionally did in F1.

[thehemogoblin]

PS - WSBK is more interesting than MotoGP but what I really miss is WRC...

WRC in its glory season of 2000: Mitsubishi, Ford, Subaru, SEAT, Peugeot, Skoda, and Hyundai supported by limited campaigns by Danish and Swedish-run Toyota dealer teams, the FIA Teams' Cup, and various privateer WRC entries. WRC in 2009: Citroen and Ford and not even the Safari Rally. Ugh.

I read somewhere that NASCAR is getting a foothold in both Great Britain and Italy in terms of viewership, though this was a few years ago. Both Dale Earnhardt's proved adequate in limited GT running, though not producing blistering speed. I think Senna would have been successful in stock cars once he learned the game. He had the ruthless aggression to shove anything out of his way, just like he occasionally did in F1.

Senna would probably be the best convert from F1 to NASCAR. (I've probably seen more NASCAR races than damn near all of you... I was a devoted follower all the way through my childhood.)

[BlindCaveSalamander]

On the flip side, who do you think would be the best convert from NASCAR to F1? Personally, I'd think Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart would be the best candidates, both having come up through the IndyCar/Champ Car feeder series'.

[thehemogoblin]

On the flip side, who do you think would be the best convert from NASCAR to F1? Personally, I'd think Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart would be the best candidates, both having come up through the IndyCar/Champ Car feeder series'.

AJ Allmendinger would be pretty good. He nearly dethroned Bourdais in 2007. Gordon did pretty well in his test laps in the Williams, if I recall. Stewart is great at driving anything. Boris Said, although not a regular, would probably have done really well. Robby Gordon would also have been successful in F1, as his Champ Car pedigree was pretty solid before he switched. The thought of Kyle Busch in F1 always intrigues me, as does the thought of Dale Earnhardt, Jr. Those last two are just thoughts though.

[Cynon]

@thehemogoblin -- I challenge your claim that you've seen more NASCAR then I.

NASCAR boys that would have done well in F1?

These first two would have to have been younger and would need open wheel experience, obviously...

Rusty Wallace. In the late 80s and early 90s, Rusty Wallace showed that whenever driving talent came to the forefront, he was right up with Dale Earnhardt, but the Penske and Blue Max cars he drove let him down, and on tracks requiring power, he was nowhere to be seen. Wallace's NASCAR accomplishments include 55 wins, the lone championship in 1989, and winning nearly a third of the schedule in 1993 (which is much less common in NASCAR than it is in F1!), but still lost the championship due to his Penske Pontiac being as reliable as the Red Bulls from a few years ago!

Did I mention Rusty is most known for prowess on short ovals and road courses? Oh.

Besides, an F1 driver who used the name Rusty would be fantastic, no?

Mark Martin, he of two first names, and arguably the greatest NASCAR driver to never win a NASCAR championship (second four times)... ... ... or will that be the case? Mark Martin's 37 wins span over a longer period of time than Rusty Wallace's. In fact, Mark Martin is still racing -- and winning -- at 50 years old!

Jeff Gordon, arguably the greatest driver of the past 15 years. While he was given the best equipment immediately, he has shown over the years he deserves to be in the car he's in. He was actually being groomed to make the jump to CART and to F1, not NASCAR, but CART teams didn't notice him. He has since made them all look really, really stupid. Perhaps Jeff Gordon is what F1 would have needed to give Schumi a consistent run for his money week in and week out. I believe he even won the Race of Champions one year.

Kyle Busch, if only for the entertainment value. I don't think he's nearly as talented as people make him out to be, because his teammates oddly faded to the back after he joined Gibbs. But he has a whiny personality that would make Lewis Hamilton look like a boy scout. Oh how I would love to hear Kyle Busch and Lewis Hamilton get into a fight... >=D

[thehemogoblin]

Cynon, you're also in America... you sooooooooooo do not count.

I think Mark Martin's inability to win the championship would have greatly inhibited his ability to win the championship, if you know what I mean.

[StoneColdSpider]

im out of the US... and i watch every NASCAR race....
i like it a lot... sumthing different and enjoyable to watch... the adjustments and strategy they do in the pitlane can mean that a fast car at the start of the race can b run down after a few tweaks in the pitlane by other cars....

BOOGIDY BOOGIDY BOOGIDY LETS GO RACING BOYS!!!

[DonTirri]

BOOGIDY BOOGIDY BOOGIDY LETS GO RACING BOYS!!!

BOOGIDT BOOGIDY LETS TURN LEFT FOR FEW HOURS AND HAVE A CAUTION THE SECOND SOMEONE SEEMS TO BREAK AWAY!

AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE 'CAUSE DONTIRRI SAID SO.

And yes, ive seen my share of NASCAR-races.

[RejectSteve]

Cynon, you're also in America... you sooooooooooo do not count.

I don't think I've seen a NASCAR race since 2002. I'll take the WTCC or V8 Supercar anyday (not that you can see them on TV in the US... )

[thehemogoblin]

Cynon, you're also in America... you sooooooooooo do not count.

I don't think I've seen a NASCAR race since 2002. I'll take the WTCC or V8 Supercar anyday (not that you can see them on TV in the US... )

I watch the Daytona 500 (because there's nothing else to watch in mid-February in America), and then I watch the road course races, Darlington, and that's about it.

[tristan1117]

I don't watch any NASCAR at all. How exciting can turning left for 200 odd laps be? I'll bet NASCAR wouldn't be as popular if the CART/IRL split never happened. However, I would like to see some NASCAR drivers in F1 like AJ Allmendinger, Kyle Busch, and Tony Stewart. Would they succeed? Probably not, but its worth a call to Peter Windsor.

[thehemogoblin]

Dale Earnhardt Jr. or Tony Stewart would bring absolute truckloads of American money with them to F1... talented NASCAR drivers = F1 pay drivers?

[DonTirri]

[quote= talented NASCAR drivers = F1 pay drivers?[/quote]

No. "Talented" NASCAR drivers = F1 Rejects!

[BorderReiver]

BOOGIDY BOOGIDY BOOGIDY LETS GO RACING BOYS!!!

BOOGIDT BOOGIDY LETS TURN LEFT FOR FEW HOURS AND HAVE A CAUTION THE SECOND SOMEONE SEEMS TO BREAK AWAY!

AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE 'CAUSE DONTIRRI SAID SO.

And yes, ive seen my share of NASCAR-races.

Odd you've learned nothing from them then . . . .

[Cynon]

Cynon, you're also in America... you sooooooooooo do not count.

I don't think I've seen a NASCAR race since 2002. I'll take the WTCC or V8 Supercar anyday (not that you can see them on TV in the US... )

I watch the Daytona 500 (because there's nothing else to watch in mid-February in America), and then I watch the road course races, Darlington, and that's about it.

I sort of feel the same way. Daytona, Darlington, the road courses, and Talladega because it throws up a somewhat random result*. Though this because the commentators do their best to make you feel like a complete idiot all the time and the officials are as consistent as rolling 20-sided dice.

* - This often because the draft is, with the fugly COT car that NASCAR uses, the great equalizer.

[thehemogoblin]

I love Darlington. It's by far the best oval on the calendar... if you can call it an oval. I believe egg is a better way to describe it.