Why a FOTA-backed series won't happen

[BB01]

It wouldn't be motorsport if there weren't some rule bending. Its certainly an interesting proposition. What would be there to stop a Formula 1 team setting up a LMP1 team? Let's face it, they'll have a lot more money around if they cut their "official" spending by 300m euro, so its not like they couldn't afford it. I realise LMP1 cars are sportscars but there must be some significant technology overlap between them. And racing in another series would mean more sponsorship money, so they could make more money than they currently are.

I'm not sure about the last part. There has to be some sort of diminishing marginal returns to investment in competition, or else everyone would be in every single category.

But sure, nothing would stop teams developing and testing specific tech in other series; my point was they might pay some consultancy (like Lola...) to test these specific technologies for them - for instance, the pharmaceitical industry has been sub-contracting the testing of new medicines to companies that specialise in that business area.

That's true, there might be some diminishing returns but the point i was making was that there would be no reason for the amount of sponsorship attracted to a team to decrease, just because their spending is being limited, therefore potentially leaving them with enough money to compete in another series with all the extra money they've made on F1, even if they couldn't attract a sponsor for the other series. In real life, that wouldn't happen because they would always be able to attract some sponsorship, even if it wasn't enough to support the program for the other series on its own.

It all may be moot point now, given what FOTA has announced.

[CarlosFerreira]

That's true, there might be some diminishing returns but the point i was making was that there would be no reason for the amount of sponsorship attracted to a team to decrease, just because their spending is being limited, therefore potentially leaving them with enough money to compete in another series with all the extra money they've made on F1, even if they couldn't attract a sponsor for the other series. In real life, that wouldn't happen because they would always be able to attract some sponsorship, even if it wasn't enough to support the program for the other series on its own.

It all may be moot point now, given what FOTA has announced.

In all fairness, you may be right. A manufacturer in more than one competition might get a sponsor to pay to be displayed in all competitions. Of course, it will depend on the return the sponsor might get. Indeed, it's not a straightforward deal.

And yes, I'm guessing none this really matters anymore, does it?

[jonnowoody]

Great topic - well argued on all sides.

I'm hoping for a sea-change, where Bernie jumps ship to go where the money is, and the Lolas, Ntechs, Prodrives etc.. who have withdrawn their entries, make-up a 12 team grid racing on tracks we love. FIA can look after world rally.

[StoneColdSpider]

FIA can look after world rally.

oh great.... doom WRC why dont u!

[captainhappy]

"If there is no new series, I will not join the new Formula 1 as I have said, with the small teams.
"It is not F1, not the category we have loved for the last 60 years.
"There are other categories, and hopefully I'll find an attractive one outside of F1, or outside Europe. I will keep racing because I am only 27 years old.
"Maybe the US. There is some good competition there, like the Indy cars, and then there is Le Mans. I am not going to close any doors.
- Fred Alonso, 2009

If formula one blows up, I won't shed a tear. It will be a fantastically interesting time in motor sports. I already have great fun imagining what teams and drivers will end up doing. Can you Indycar fans see Fernando in the Dale Coyne "SONNY'S BBQ" machine?

As a fan, what will you miss? Bernie screwing over thriving Grands Prix like Canada and Britain? The FIA unilaterally imposing rule changes or settling race results in court? Max sending six cars on track for a race?

No, the only thing to mourn will be the title of world champion. I fear this will be illegitimate for a number of years.

[thehemogoblin]

I'll miss Ferrari. That's about it.

[Paul Hayes]

My worry is that with the threat of legal action and the back-biting getting ever more vociferous, we'll see 16 cars peel off into the pitlane at the end of the parade lap on Sunday afternoon, leaving Nico Rosberg to romp home in a four-car race.

[Klon]

My worry is that with the threat of legal action and the back-biting getting ever more vociferous, we'll see 16 cars peel off into the pitlane at the end of the parade lap on Sunday afternoon, leaving Nico Rosberg to romp home in a four-car race.

Make five or six out of it, could imagine Nick Heidfeld and Rubens Barrichello joining the grid to get the respective first win or a reducement of Button's championship advantage.

[WeirdKerr]

Correct me if im wrong but do all car racing championships not have to be ratified by the FIA, unless they are planning to orginise a rival to the FIA in which case i dont see them being able to race anywhere as all circuits are approved by the FIA in some way and i dont see the FIA aproving the use of a circuit by a rival orginisation....

[Jordan192]

Correct me if im wrong but do all car racing championships not have to be ratified by the FIA, unless they are planning to orginise a rival to the FIA in which case i dont see them being able to race anywhere as all circuits are approved by the FIA in some way and i dont see the FIA aproving the use of a circuit by a rival orginisation....

It's been said elsewhere, but if the breakaway were to happen, and the FIA were to attempt to stop it taking place by withholding sanction or blocking access to tracks, the EU would come down on them like several tons of particularly pointy bricks.

[WeirdKerr]

Correct me if im wrong but do all car racing championships not have to be ratified by the FIA, unless they are planning to orginise a rival to the FIA in which case i dont see them being able to race anywhere as all circuits are approved by the FIA in some way and i dont see the FIA aproving the use of a circuit by a rival orginisation....

It's been said elsewhere, but if the breakaway were to happen, and the FIA were to attempt to stop it taking place by withholding sanction or blocking access to tracks, the EU would come down on them like several tons of particularly pointy bricks.

THe EU cant stop the the FIA outside of Europe.......

[LionZoo]

I'm not sure who would win, but this does feel like more posturing, except with an even more brinkmanship aspect than normal. I will say that in my eyes, while Mosley seemed to have started the mess with his heavy handed tactics, he's become quite reasonable lately with his negotiations. In some ways, he's handled this like how he has always handled negotiations with teams; ask for a bunch and gradually scale back. It's the manufacturers that are now acting like unreasonable children.

[thehemogoblin]

Correct me if im wrong but do all car racing championships not have to be ratified by the FIA, unless they are planning to orginise a rival to the FIA in which case i dont see them being able to race anywhere as all circuits are approved by the FIA in some way and i dont see the FIA aproving the use of a circuit by a rival orginisation....

It's been said elsewhere, but if the breakaway were to happen, and the FIA were to attempt to stop it taking place by withholding sanction or blocking access to tracks, the EU would come down on them like several tons of particularly pointy bricks.

THe EU cant stop the the FIA outside of Europe.......

I'm pretty sure that NASCAR is not FIA sanctioned, at least.

[Irisado]

A lot of good arguments here, but as much as I dislike the personalities of Mosley and Ecclestone, I have to say that FOTA holds even less appeal to me as an F1 fan.

Allow me to outline the reasons why:

1. Ferrari. Di Montezemelo is, to all intents and purposes, head of FOTA. I think he is the worst possible candidate to lead this group in view of the exceptionally grubby deal Ferrari arranged with the FIA under his and Todt's leadership. For Di Montezemelo to complain about budget caps and governance from the FIA is total and utter hypocrisy. Can he be trusted to run to a fair series? No, in my view. Can Ferrari be trusted? No, in my opinion. Their behaviour off the track has been a total disgrace, and they have no moral right to run any sort of series.

2. The manufacturers. Manufacturers have no passion for F1. They race solely on the whims of the boardroom and are only influenced by profit margins. As soon as car sales start flagging, they start looking for ways to get out. I don't want to watch a race where all the competitors are manufacturers. It would just be so tedious and lacking in passion, (which is almost the state we have got to now, which is why new independent teams are needed) that it would just be so sapping of the soul. Also, there just won't be enough cars on the grid, and as for the argument that manufacturers could run three cars....I don't think so. They just won't be able to afford it. Why else were they so keen for Jordan and Minardi to stay in F1 in 2003, 2004 and 2005? They didn't want to finish last, and they didn't want to have to field three cars. Once manufacturers start finishing last, their boards pull them out (e.g. Honda), and once one goes, another manufacturer team ends up at the back of the grid, then it pulls out, and so on and so forth. It becomes unsustainable.

3. New teams. Ferrari have already shown their true colours by dismissing new teams as 'GP3', so why on earth would new teams join FOTA? The manufacturers are not interested in keeping costs down, so the chances of attracting new blood are next to zero in my view.

The involvement of manufacturers in taking over teams has been a disaster for F1 in my view, and it was much healthier when there was a better balance between the teams, so I think F1 is going to be better off if some of them go to the wall, get taken over, or just end up being engine suppliers to independent teams in the future.

I also don't think this breakaway series will even happen, and the childish sabre rattling between the FIA and FOTA is all about egos and money. It's pathetic, and they should just sit down and sort it out, instead of making all these ridiculous threats.

The FIA is now threatening to sue FOTA, particularly Ferrari, over breaches of contract should the breakaway series go ahead.

I am no fan of Mosley and Ecclestone and I particularly dislike this crusade Mosley has been on to make engines and gearboxes homogenised, as it has ruined the variable of unreliability which F1 needs in my view, but a championship run by manufacturers is a disaster waiting to happen, especially if people think that they can trust Ferrari.....

[Henrique]

I take my hat to you, Irisado. You read my mind perfectly.

[CarlosFerreira]

I'm not sure who would win, but this does feel like more posturing, except with an even more brinkmanship aspect than normal. I will say that in my eyes, while Mosley seemed to have started the mess with his heavy handed tactics, he's become quite reasonable lately with his negotiations. In some ways, he's handled this like how he has always handled negotiations with teams; ask for a bunch and gradually scale back. It's the manufacturers that are now acting like unreasonable children.

He was just slightly too heavy-handed this time. He really did try to bypass all the manufacturers in this issue, and has moved to using silly deadlines and threats. I really think that he has gone too far this time around, and hasn't been as reasonable as that.